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Well -- -- one of the original whistle blowers.
His mark Klein mark worked for AT&T.
We're just at the technician at their communications center -- ever Cisco.
And in the fall of 2003.
Is company -- -- with a key to every door except one room 641.
Mark welcome to the drug -- thank you for coming on tonight prepaid agreement here.
You -- your phone -- -- no pun intended off of both have had Wednesday February it would let.
-- familiar if you could just give us a thumbnail -- -- is familiar with your story.
Role you played as a whistle blower earlier in the decade and eighteen today.
Well in 2003 I was working and then AT&T central office.
And I had.
-- learned before hand at the end they had built.
A secret room in -- office which I knew right away was totally legal.
Because back then they had notre order produced going inside domestic communications.
-- you finance -- was going on.
When how did you find out what made you believe.
I'm when I was looking at -- previous office.
We got an email saying.
I'm inside guys coming to interview one of the management level technicians.
-- special secret job.
And that -- -- -- -- toll could let the men and I happened to be the one that the door when he came.
And he interviewed.
Mentioned level technician who we found out over the following weeks.
What is the guy who's going to be working.
Inside that secret room at the rest of us could not -- even though he was handling the same equipment -- we work it was clear.
That's what was going on that's because room was and -- -- operation.
And you're in that room once for a couple minutes as I understand.
You have an accident I knew the guy who is working in there.
Pennington -- will protect.
Look at management level and he wanted to show -- some technical problem -- -- -- -- a couple minutes trying to -- the entire.
Probably should have done that.
What are you discover they were looking -- -- formation was being collected there.
Like eternal -- physical layout.
And this document but I -- the pickup.
Which global -- And I was more critical.
True that -- was connected up to the -- into -- room upstairs.
So that they were tapping your tapping into the main -- blow where everybody everybody's.
But it was blowing through and -- accompanying alternate.
Not just AT&T customers but everybody feel good you know that would be -- -- they really just Internet data collection -- were they collecting phone call information as well.
Well I only knows there at the very -- -- collecting.
Voice over IP phone -- richer I got -- Right and an -- Maybe.
At some point you you you've since retired but at some point you had a crisis of conscience I -- -- to.
Whether you should go public when you walk us through what you went through and an and you decided.
To come forward with.
Well I knew it was probably illegal people could very limited scandal that you know they and listen -- -- I'm -- -- -- not supposed to do domestic spying domestic spying.
So -- in the end we're -- physical equipment I could see that there were collecting and copying everything indiscriminately.
That this could not possibly be done legally until you know the Fourth Amendment.
-- and look at specific warranty naming specific people and things that they want.
-- -- work just collecting everybody's millions of people information.
He also -- if you came forward -- lose your job.
You know if you're gonna displayed little I didn't wanna lose my job I can anybody else so I -- I think on the documents.
Within -- 2000 who are they offered a buyout so I retired.
I -- -- the documents.
And did nothing until the end of 2005.
When it went in the New York Times.
Came where -- blockbuster article revealing that bullish.
I have been doing warrantless.
-- December 19 2005 I references an article earlier.
And you -- the source of that ground.
No I would not -- -- right.
I think he's right and Eric put out a few months later.
But they wrote that article from -- -- But when that article came out.
I realized -- I have the details of that really just talking about in general terms bush is doing illegal warrantless -- did you do.
Till the next moment I went.
And to move electronic frontier electronic frontier condensation.
And gave him the documents.
And I really started.
Getting trying to -- in newspapers.
And eventually ended up talking to Jim Dryden never -- -- with a New York Times again.
-- -- that article to -- about what kind of reception did you get from the media at that point.
Well before anybody knew who -- -- -- I personally had an exciting.
Acceptance from LA times.
And they turned it over to publish a huge front page story but can if you weeks later -- that they talked to.
Her up talked to the director of national intelligence.
And they proposed -- -- -- -- heard general Hayden.
And then they kill the story yeah.
So basically -- you know the more touches so.
But you know -- the New York Times and they eventually.
Published an article and it broke the dam and then everybody's put it.
Clinical you know.
-- what happen to you after that.
Well -- only got a lot of media coverage.
It got killed for its -- -- I'm still gonna a lot of good out there.
You're Keith Olbermann show worth the time and -- -- all I don't think.
And the front line and Nightline.
Howard didn't -- like sixty minutes.
But then mysteriously.
They've never -- -- -- Anyway.
Could you also have to testify.
We -- we went to Washington.
We tried first to contact us senator from their point Spain and he wouldn't talk to me.
He wanted to -- my lawyer.
Why because she was busy trying to get immunity for the phone companies.
Through the intelligence committee and Judiciary Committee can do on the part of the NSA.
And had a little.
There -- when she has recently made statements also defending the NSA against the current whistle -- If you want to -- up.
Trashing the constitution.
Along with the NSA.
I'm so we went to Washington to 2007.
To try to lobby Washington.
I'm not to give immunity -- the phone company.
Because the -- it was one of the principally.
If it went to court.
To bring out what was going on.
Congressman -- and the government knew that the government went to congress.
And eventually with the help of Obama in my head even before he got elected.
And July 2008.
Congress finally passed.
The immunity for the phone company.
And that killed a lot.
I say so and they're acting coach and kinda quiet and people trapped -- and Obama -- favored giving immunity to the phone company as far as the senate.
When he refers to candidate he gave speeches saying he would -- filibuster any bill with a mix of units.
But then when he became the candidate of Democratic Party and switched sides.
And help -- help -- him immunity deal in July 2000.
What do you think happens to people where they switch sides of situations like that.
Well I think it's -- and Obama's case and you just playing the liberals trying to get the votes to become.
To win the candidacy.
And beat Hillary Clinton.
But he was a fairly liberal state senator in Illinois before it became a national -- Because I think people can learn by experience now.
That it speeches and or which sounds nice and and people liberals -- to hear all the nice words he puts in his speeches.
I've almost nothing to do is look at the what -- -- actually -- Particularly when it comes to civil liberty he -- the one who's been prosecuting.
Either war the bush.
There was probable or using the Espionage Act.
But -- -- mark Klein it was an ATT whistle -- -- -- whistle -- your handle on Twitter.
I or did they.
It comes to your house at some point you authorities came in ethically or shaming her.
In the bathroom and we're here William and -- -- I'm sorry that's right I'm getting like whistle blowers mixed up here.
Who didn't play a little whistle whistle blower you you didn't have as well no I never mind -- security -- -- -- couldn't prosecute me.
At the federal level -- breaking -- You don't encrypt it came from AT&T.
To me -- company document.
However they ended up not doing -- because they didn't want all the bad publicity -- getting her they they want that if I can contain well hopefully.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Who reveal information about what was going on back in the earlier part of the decade after twenty.
After September 11 the 2001.
And little did we know until he and other brave souls like him came forward what our government was up to incapable of you -- mark to find out what you discovered.
Pakistan in 2002 yes all you influence he could -- You know our own little spying on the entire American population.
Never been done before could the technology wasn't available.
And we were told that it's one of the calls originated from overseas -- went overseas that's with a -- would take place.
But you're explaining that you really can't do that -- -- all the data from all calls foreign and domestic and -- and then Parse the data.
That that they were talking about correct.
I knew the ruling that.
-- how do you do that weren't.
I knew I was looking at the physical equipment I think it's kinda -- -- -- copying everything without any selection process.
-- everybody's information.
-- and they can.
We're open down that they're only taking this or that individual but at the Internet and in that everybody's data and all mixed together.
And Olympic Committee hours since -- -- this and that and we know for a fact what they collect but never throwaway thanks tour.
But if someone uses a key word.
Terrorism or this -- harm or somebody says something in -- sentence having to do with the president -- they can extract -- in May -- find out who that person is.
Only now we knew for more documents.
That they were using -- device called the -- Some -- traffic analyzer.
And that enables them to look and real time at the data and collected out all kinds of stuff that they want tickets left out.
Thousands of people who who mentioned more cloning work you know whatever.
On the yes they can do that.
Do you run was your reaction when you heard about Edwards Snowden who just came forward yesterday.
Hero or villain.
In the community hero this man has been one of the greatest most valuable.
Whistle -- acts.
For many years of maybe of -- -- certainly equal to Daniel I don't.
Eric how -- in the which you did.
He's revealed a much deeper level.
The NSA activities because he had.
Secret and -- documents at all I had was an AT&T company documents.
And they tried to dismiss me as a nobody who doesn't know anything because I didn't have security clearance.
But this guy he really implied.
He had security clearance he had.
The bona -- And I -- documents.
Which can't be denied it and it shows what they're doing.
And -- that the NSA has gone to a whole new level of spying.
Much more than 100 -- backhand.
And -- revealed at the door.
Company information which happen to be flowing across the Internet but the new revelation.
Is this program print them PRI has come and we just didn't actually didn't provide the data on the servers.
Of Microsoft and Google and Yahoo! and FaceBook and and the rest of them and that means they can get -- everybody's individual counts.
Even stored information.
Happen to be totally on the Internet right now I think going grant that the rural strip naked.
To attack -- Why would they give security clearance -- nature to somebody who doesn't doesn't have -- you know I think he got at a high school.
-- some people and I'm not sure that that did it's invalid and I don't I don't have a problem -- you could be 29 years old -- genius and without a formal education.
But -- -- the profile of someone who would get this -- -- clearance.
Yes because they need.
What they do is highly technical and many and is obviously very talented quick computer.
Which obviously -- like he -- -- they have.
In the NSA and CI.
And win him -- boost.
Which -- they contractor.
That took a lot of the technical work for the CIA and the NSA or despite his very technical and -- -- -- talented.
-- thought about -- formal education I understand.
But he -- does -- not sign a piece of paper at some point that says he's not gonna reveal certain key information and -- -- done.
Then breaking the law in the commission of the greater -- breaking relief revealing greater library.
Admittedly so because the insecurity cleaner.
And I would say this about that and try to grab -- probably and bring him back here and have a big show trial but Skinner everybody else.
To keep people's mouths shut all the -- out of the bed and that's a good thing and it.
Obligatory and everybody who's in favor of the constitution and civil liberties to defend this man.
I think when he did he made -- stand who had a comfortable life.
To make -- stand in defense of the constitution.
You can read -- statement looked into it -- -- at the very bold principled act could pay him and -- feeling it is.
Congress to give him retroactive immunity.
And protect them against any prosecution.
You know a few years ago currently shut down -- -- AT&T.
Can't believe that they by presenting a special law in 2008.
Giving retroactive immune.
-- by the -- you mentioned earlier that that then Senator Obama signed Brett or or or support.
Atlanta community to the phone companies.
Which killed the lawsuit.
Even though congressman who.
The Fukudome -- committed crimes and so had the anticipate.
Well McCain's congress did not stand by because the constitution.
And help -- cover up -- crime.
I think people should call on congress demanded that congress.
And by the constitution.
Give this man retroactive immunity it's only fair they give it to the phone companies these guys -- get immunity to.
There's a petition at whitehouse dot gov where you can file a petition I think 20000 more or more.
Have now signed this to not prosecute this person but it's unlikely as you point out that'll happen because they want to make a test case of.
And want to make an example they want to show he'll travel to scare everybody else.
That has security clearance to keep their mouth shut its hum.
And that's why it's important to which we overlay whatever happens this man and also -- -- they had whatever happens Bradley Manning.
And Julian Assange.
Well determine the fate.
-- the US constitution.
Could that's what's driving when it's running on.
And you're not bug and any.
Court cases at this point right here in the clear.
-- an agreement -- -- and the electronic frontier foundation.
Still has worn court case the life.
Which has -- -- hate using my documents.
And William Daley and other.
Affidavit and the court cases.
Still pending in court so it is still a -- if you can contact the electronic frontier foundation.
You know we had them on the other night I wish I had more time -- -- mr.
Klein thank you so much what you've done.
And thank you for your time in talking to our audience and I appreciate very much expecting me.
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