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Great -- -- already been done.
By opening this up.
And the consequence I believe is our security -- jeopardize there's no doubt in my mind.
That we will lose capabilities as a result of this and that not only the United States but those allies that it we have helped.
Will no longer be as safe as they were two weeks ago.
That was general Keith B Alexander and that.
Hearing about his agency's activities.
In surveilling the American population.
In in congress yesterday.
And this is power play high and Chris firewall and welcome back in and it's good -- you hear as we get ready to talk about that.
Among many other things two.
As it relates to national security but also of course that the latest Fox News falling.
And also would have a special segment on.
The bad storms that are bearing down on the East Coast global warming in the be revived debate.
Will be good it will be fun and it will be interest and and I expect all three of those will be quite true as we talked to congressman Peter Welch.
He is a Democrat from the green mountain state of Vermont congressman welcome.
Okay now here is the question would you.
The -- there is considerable brush back against the critics.
Of the domestic surveillance program.
That the NSA FBI and others have been running today.
The head of the FBI.
Came forward to say look if we would have had this in place before September 11 2001 we might have prevented those tax where are you are you you I take it one of those briefed.
On the extent of this program where are you today -- Well really the question is do you believe in the power have unlimited government or the virtue of limited government I mean this comprehensive.
-- access to our emails.
In -- our telephone records is an unprecedented amount of surveillance authority for the United States government.
And the security folks -- loosely organized -- and be in favor of that has anything they can do to surveil any of us at any time.
They can argue is gonna make us more safe.
But bottom line unlimited power is a principle that we -- -- managed to avoid.
We -- limited government so I think there's got to be some restraint the second thing is there's a real advantage to having the public participated in this debate.
You know when it gets to a specific investigation about an individual that's got to be secret as we don't want that investigation to fail.
But when it comes to this process that is going to affect all Americans what's the problem with making a transparent.
It gets the public involved in the -- they can be involved in the question trade outs in the other issue.
Its fiscal battalion the whole security budget basically -- box and you get contractors who may be with the best of intentions are pushing product.
On the taxpayers that we don't even know works we don't know what the classes were not involved in debate.
So there's a fiscal issue here that I think argues for transparency.
As the default position in secrecy when it's related to a specific investigation in secrecy is required for success.
What is congress to do what can't just do what should congress do as it relates to those concerns.
Well I think that I would say two things number one oversight what is the government surveillance program now not ways and means not who were surveilling.
But what is the overall.
A program like a prison program in American people in my -- should know that.
Secondly -- view we should tighten up the fights the requirements so that -- there is going to be.
An invasion of privacy on you or me -- emails -- someone else's.
That's got to be specific and are capable -- That allow a justification.
For that surveillance and that's the standard that can work.
And has worked to provide that right balance between protecting our security and protecting privacy and limiting the scope of government authority.
The Republican Party is divided on the subject the Democratic Party is divided on this subject.
Is there and a bipartisan majority to affect the kinds of changes though that you have that -- laid out.
Probably not right now I -- America is divided -- Yes because there is a Tug of war between what we need to do to be secure in what we need to do to be individually.
And also there's I think -- and skepticism in this country about unlimited government federal recognition you've got to have.
A security apparatus it's gonna do the job.
But you know the debate should be much -- public candidates both because the American people are the ones were affected their safety that's affected it's their privacy -- -- These briefings the problem I have with the briefing since it what is it.
If one member of congress is told what's going on but the people we represent can't be told.
So in fact I believe the American people should be briefed on what the overall governmental programs are.
And I find it -- I'm a bit skeptical of the security folks saying that.
If you disclose the existence of the prison program somehow that's -- tipoff of terrorists that seems like a stretch to me.
All along the banks of the white river they know -- congressman Peter well -- you do to Internet thank you for making unforced errors thanks very much.
OK now let's find out about what will become of the -- Arguably one of them ADV most wanted it American fugitive in the world right now mr.
Somebody who knows what might be in store for him.
-- general Jack -- he it was the vice chief of staff for the united states army before he retired he is now -- Fox News military analyst.
And he knows what general well.
-- -- -- OK so.
Went to China.
Or Hong Kong as you can point out is slightly different button anyway.
He went to China.
Guess if you will or -- let us gas what might be -- -- against this cat right now as he is on the.
Well first of all I would I would hope the opinion.
What some people started to change I mean he he appears as he stated to have altruistic motives for what he has done.
But at the listening to the testimony.
That you highlighted.
From general Alexander's comments where he said that we as a result of -- news release of this information we will lose capability.
And we will endanger the lives of American citizens.
I mean this guy is not a hero quite frankly that is treason.
Then he should be treated such prosecuted and I believe he will be.
They'll be charges brought against them and I believe he'll be extradited.
And I think that will take place as well he will be tried and -- find themselves.
In jail I think that is the process.
That which we'll move it along and even.
Yesterday's revelations yet to be verified.
That he is -- same information about our operations.
Against the Chinese to get information from the Chinese intelligence information and he's releasing that I mean.
That also -- is quite staggering absolutely runs.
I think counts of cities altruistic motives he has about civil liberties in the United States that is actually nothing to do so would.
General one of our viewers wants -- what do you think he was paid by a foreign government for what he did.
Is he doing what with a -- government was he paid do you do you believe it's possible that he was aided by a foreign government to do what he did.
I have I have no idea most of our.
-- most of our people who work with a foreign government and release information to them.
They come into got a growers want as they do with the financial game and they do with ideology most -- -- for financial -- I have an -- understanding what's going on here with him and that's why we've got to get our hands on and get an investigative.
You know we heard from general Alexander and we've heard from -- of the threat here is there a way though.
In reference to congressman Welch and many people on the left and the right is there a way to add transparency works something to a program such as this program such as these.
In order to allay some of these concerns that Americans that.
What will look at we have we have to protect our sources and methods and -- has to be secrecy associated.
But it seems to me and this so much misinformation here and -- congressman provided some of that to be quite frank about it.
Right now you have to have probable call was just to get the somebody's phone record you have to go before the fights a court.
And demonstrate that a terrorist is is talking to this.
Phone number and we want access to that phone and then you have to go back again if you want to monitor that -- And the same thing with the Internet the misinformation on the -- that is.
NSA does not have access to everybody's emails.
That program that we are discussing the so called prism program.
Is about access to foreign emails using.
American search engines like Google etc.
To get access to that.
And they also go before the -- support to do that if that trail leads back to the United States -- certainly.
The oversight of the foreign intelligence surveillance court.
Would approve that based on probable cause so this is a limited program to use the congressman's words already.
And I think it it's the oversight is is very appropriate.
And that one of very few -- say that they have -- for stars.
General Jack team we thank you very much for your time today sir.
Always good talking it -- Okay all right Internet election one hole before we go just to put this in perspective -- as we -- a whole rash of Fox News polls that broke out last night and I want to -- -- On some of that and here's the one in the NSA secretly collecting phone records of millions of American citizens -- -- what did you think American voters.
Unacceptable and invades privacy say 62%.
That's kind of it.
That's candidate anyway.
We'll talk more about that and the crisis of confidence that his -- the government of Barack Obama when we come back.
-- And that's is stinging evidence that the American people are feeling distrustful.
Of their government at Fox News poll says.
Why did Justice Department seized the phone records of journalists.
Political reasons -- 63.
This -- that's a lot.
That's a lot of lot.
To believe what is a pretty heinous accusation.
Against the nation's top moral law enforcement officer.
Eric Holder and his department that they.
Arsenal that they -- or maybe -- -- snooping on reporters for political reasons that's that's hat that's really bad.
So how did we get here and what is the consequence.
-- electorate that views its government that way.
You know who knows because he cats again -- -- on to such matters.
Is David candidates now.
There -- a lot of ways that you should know David but the way that you should know him now.
Is that he is the proprietor of the run when he sixteen which is really good -- can't it's it's so good but I can't -- it because of copyright issues.
But I'm looking at it and I want to tell you.
It is really it it is it is simple answer to decide.
With lots of good insights that David well thank you so much I'm feeling good about the round exits like that you feel -- -- -- would you feel good about me feeling this is right.
All right so here's the thing -- want to show you another one that I think is perhaps more damning.
Our pollsters asked and I want to say this.
I say it all the time but I am -- say we are one of the best -- in the business now.
Certainly the Wall Street Journal NBC news poll -- really good.
But we have store and their methodology and have a fantastic -- where we use a Republican -- and a Democrat -- detest each -- assumptions.
And -- and the result is really quite wonderful.
But what is the reason the president -- did not order US troops to help Americans and then got the.
Didn't want to risk re elections 56%.
Including -- swap the Democrats including -- -- not insignificant number of Democrats.
This is ahead right.
I'm not good you look at all these numbers -- this scandal after scandal mean remember the iris -- -- -- wiped off the pages -- view.
I'm right there.
But I -- if you look at headlines I mean it's been -- we've had three scandals and -- The numbers are bad.
I think on the surveillance just haven't actually conversation.
With few reporters about this -- -- How you -- weren't the pulling -- whether people are four.
-- -- -- -- you know depends if you say surveillance.
People are against it.
But -- they noted that doesn't necessarily mean content of the call and you need a warrant to get the content I think if you dive into the -- -- It gets to be a little different so I think -- screen that that particular question.
Is -- court.
And that's why that the conflict that you heard in the first segment between general -- and congressman Welch between their points of view is so important.
Because how this is couched in how this is -- has so much to do with what people's perceptions are right exactly this is the battle this is battlefield Washington right now.
And imagine I mean.
Received about that this this morning and match and -- President Obama.
Had curtailed this program you had had said -- -- going to stop this surveillance program that was bombed about how.
Our and then the Boston Marathon happens we would probably be sitting here today completely different it just it's station and Republicans would be saying.
-- what did you do this is the right week footed.
You know and guess what that -- and -- security apparatus told freshman president Barack Obama when he walked in the door.
Nice mandate you've got here -- -- shame if something happened to it if you dial back any of this right it's a hard thing to get your hands around is it the president may be a very powerful guy.
But when faced with possibilities you say.
Of the political catastrophe that is I limited a program like this and then a bad thing happened -- you know that's.
And I think we've seen with you know the president -- mean in all circumstances foreign but at least in you know in Afghanistan -- -- -- the user ramp up.
You know defense security but doesn't talk about it he doesn't he is tablet the explanation I think it's a different part I think we.
I think there's more agreement that president doesn't do and so very well explaining.
His policies in general.
-- this that you think -- strategy that basically what you say I keep you know right here these Republicans these conservative president needs to come out and defend.
This domestic surveillance it's like why would he do that if Republicans will do it for -- And he doesn't have to bear the consequences.
Of standing up for program that he expected.
Well that's true but you're still the president he had I mean whether Diane Feinstein comes out there on fixing that system.
The president is always gonna have the largest -- -- phone in the room and particularly now where.
It's drip drip drip there's going to be more questions there's going to -- -- -- leaders I think what could help the president.
Is sort of an overreach by.
-- sort of that -- streak of the so libertarians the reporters who believe it's their job to expose everything.
I think you could actually see the American public say wait a second.
Should we really be exposing.
All the secrets and all the tactics that our government is using.
I'm just tune in and watching you know -- -- comments when removed journalists that -- -- everybody in London right so so.
You know whether you know he's getting very aggressive about I mean he's an act.
Activists journalists yeah but he had gotten it right right but I would just say that if that continues you get more be a pile on the back.
Then do you did you take that pull in three weeks from now and you people say oh wait a second maybe we shouldn't be exposing all the tactics.
Are enemies out.
And -- -- only sixteen is a wonderful thing in an opinion and a wonderful thing that I.
His column I wrote that group today and if you followed Twitter it would have it already.
It is and I know distrust sinking Obama and it ties together a series of fairly I was surprised that kind of poll numbers.
And what they add up -- -- the fact that for the first time this is not insignificant.
The president's personal.
And personal honesty assessment what people think of him out of the government but it -- personally for the first time in his career going to break even.
He enjoyed it 45 he was plus 45 and that metric when he took in April of 2009.
And now he's tied it -- it's 4848.
In one thing one would suppose that that's not this.
The -- from 16 year term rather than two or your terms continues are well I mean this is all that is how we just -- We have got interests remember you that way calling for the why -- the day trial balloon.
Throwing floating balloons but also -- excellence we thank you very much David best -- okay.
Now we're gonna take a quick break when we come back but analysts you'd love that -- you don't know yet but I bet it will come to love waiting for you on the other side says Iraq.
-- bad bad news Internet I'm sorry.
Well I'm only half story because we're we're gonna let the rest of Chicago including Austin and all on bad weather.
But we will be back -- -- thirty but we have to go because.
This we're heading back to the mother ship for the coverage of the Zimmerman trial down in Florida.
-- be taking you through that so please enjoy and please join us again tomorrow -- great.
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