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Now while I directed getting -- dead -- out seventy million dollars in bonuses some are asking why no -- has inspired might have been targeting scandal.
Yesterday on the mall -- in DC.
Happening now specifically are great Booker statement producer extraordinaire Christina Robbins.
I was walking along here and ran into some members of the Tea Party movement who gathered to protest the political targeting of the agency here's.
Several what they had to say we get some pictures -- passing attack.
I'm Martha Showalter you see here covering her face with the signs as we need to get rid of the IRS she wants a flat tax put in its place.
David -- from Yorktown Virginia has some strong words for the IRS as well as you can see there in your screen he says -- iris is doing is extortion.
And adds we didn't always have the federal tax agency -- -- David is right on that last point the first IRS commissioner.
Was appointed during the civil war president Lincoln named the position to collect taxes to fund the war efforts.
But the income -- deemed unconstitutional.
Years later in opposition went away.
Well back in 1913.
The constitution was amended and the income tax has made legal and gave birth essentially to the modern day are higher -- of many.
Questions are are -- you know surfacing.
And many were asking yesterday and many prod probably are asking here on April 15 every year all things considered do we actually need the higher -- do we need.
Joining us now senior economics writer of the Wall Street Journal Steve -- And president and CEO of the Tea Party group freedom -- -- the back of the program at best so.
Matt the Tea Party is relatively new movements -- Steve I'm gonna bring it back to -- writing from 1998.
It was a good year.
So you get a start first you wrote an article titled.
Abolish the tax code not IRS.
Do you still feel that why.
Well by the way I am impressed with -- -- history last game.
I got -- that was that was really good stuff.
You're right did did the you know we both survived as a country for almost a 130 years without an income tax at all and I think what -- have -- I would like to see is to go back to those days where we actually got rid of the income tax either entirely.
Or why not -- tax -- now that the flat tax would not abolish the IRS but one of the things that it would do.
Is that with so simplify.
Our 20000 page tax code it would probably get down to about 200 pages that you wouldn't need.
This enormous enforcement mechanism and the most abusive agency of government -- one last thing about this -- you know.
The IRS notes you we talked about the NSA knowing so much about you you know the I -- has the power to garnish your wages they can go -- your -- account and take money out it can go into your home.
It has the information about where you went to dinner last night -- what kind of car you drive I mean it's an incredibly abusive agency and -- -- -- -- -- -- is in our last night wasn't very good stuff yeah.
Had my chance that they should direct to look into that fishing go there that after the dirt into this a little bit more into it is the issue really -- -- an agency.
And the potential abuses the agency.
Can participate and like we're seeing with the targeting -- certain groups or the true problem really -- tax code which is still vague in some ways.
It it almost feeds into that.
The agency and potentially doing wrong so what is really the priority here IRS or the tax code.
Was probably both and it's kind of a chicken and egg situation because I think all of these these discretionary social engineer and -- in provisions in the IRS code.
Has created a a incredible -- Corrupt culture at the IRS but I do think.
That we need to acknowledge that the behavior at the IRS which was.
Was institution -- wasn't a few bad apples that was everybody exploiting that discretionary authority they have choosing winners and losers.
Driving their personal political agendas that's enough to say we're gonna pull it out of there by the roots.
And replace it with a date -- it with a new revenue collection agency that in implements these these simpler.
Tax provisions under a flat tax.
It's interesting Steve -- -- things that you wrote about -- have you talk a little bit about what Matt just said.
You say that IRS's again this is back in 1998 IRS has more employees in the EPA.
-- the FBI the DEA -- FDA.
And AT -- And I fat check that Steve just to be sure it was saturated is still true the IRS as a single agency is bigger than all those agencies combined.
You -- -- government commission once though.
Where people wrote -- said that they felt bullied and intimidated by.
By this agency and isn't happening for years so what's to say we replace it with another agency even if it's smaller that the same thing doesn't start happen.
About I think that's great question by the way just add to what you were saying there's also more I asked I mean IRS agents that Border Patrol agents out in hired you're talking about the Border Patrol we have a lot of people the border but we even have more people snooping into your -- -- rocker.
What things I'd like to -- just do you in this question should we get rid of the IRS -- the tax code I agree with that we should do both.
If we actually abolish the income tax and I don't think that's gonna maybe happen right away but at some point I think it well think about this it would no longer be in the business of government how much money you make -- because you just -- year you're taxes when you go to the store and you consume things like you pay -- sales tax I've always liked that idea because then the government wouldn't have.
Have to know how much money you make you wouldn't have to keep -- your records for the for the IRS April 15 would just be another spring day.
Thought that would be amazing if this Matt what do you think about that option an -- the fact that.
We tried hard to back tax reform just so -- that when you look at actually his trying to do it for example senator pockets.
What are the reasons why he says he can do later when the ways -- -- but in saying that he says he's going for is that he's going to retire -- -- having sort of political consequence.
So what do we do about not only you know maybe having some new ideas like the one -- mention but having lawmakers that are really.
Really willing to fight for it.
-- figure in the middle of a paradigm shift in Washington DC we do you have.
Principal legislators like Ted crews that are willing to do it -- -- literally -- populated Washington.
But I think what it comes to this this cozy relationship between -- IRS and all of these politicians that want to use.
That the handouts and a tax code.
We're gonna do this from the outside I think literally the American people.
Are the only people that can get this done it's not gonna happen inside the beltway -- and I think yesterday's protests was part of that.
But with the transparency.
And all of that is the strength we get through the Internet.
We have an ability to have to -- -- and accountability on Washington we've never had before contingency knowing that you're so right about that because that the whole central power the central power system.
Of the federal government really evolves from the tax system and that's what matters right if we're gonna do this it's Washington vs America.
Okay and I.
-- -- -- and that thank you the last -- -- and that he had do we do it is simply by voting in new lawmakers and this is a transition that happens over the next several decades is is something that can happen quicker.
Well I think it has to happen quicker and I'd like to make this a mandate for.
For want a fourteen minutes it's literally us vs them now we have to do it for ourselves seat that they conversation appreciated friend and I just try to make it -- -- and something something comes that Nevin up.
I faced him and.
Thank you as well you're.
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