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The -- Can you tell.
Mean it could be.
Mean -- -- fruity treat you right through my neighbors.
What is it.
-- trouble here.
-- And game -- and and feel file and win.
So following him yes.
He's a word to describe it -- -- highlight but he's word.
He's a word and -- Yes.
Kelly's court is back in session to take up the Zimmermann case.
So far now with our panel.
-- Jenkins a former prosecutor John -- -- is a former prosecutor now defense attorney and -- let me start with you -- now that that that was the State's star witness right.
How'd she do where do we -- That -- that testimony is probably the biggest coup for any defects because never gonna come in they're gonna argue will look to trade on Martin's state of mind.
He had some kind of -- -- because remember they're saying they say self defense they trade bond initiated.
However I think when you start credible this witness's testimony she's not the greatest -- in the world she she the thought witness in many ways.
But she comes across as being brutally honest -- going to argue shouldn't censor.
That that conversation that she pat would trade -- in order to try to pull him in a better life she simply told me and told it like he was.
This is what he say why did he say that because he was being followed so it.
You start crediting her testimony as the defense you can't they just cherry -- and say look I would -- concept but disregard everything else he's testified about me.
I don't think she came across as brutally honest I think she comes across as politically ignorant and I think she gonna aggravate the jury if she keeps up with this.
What happened last night after she got off the -- came back this morning.
But her whole aspect with this.
Yes -- Yes sir and the jury having the kind of needed to hear if she -- anything other than yes -- it all morning I don't think -- that she did -- an aggravated during every -- she opens her mouth her credibility gets chipped away and chipped away and with Al credibility for a star witness the prosecution has lost points by putting her on the planet I I don't.
Think so because when you're prosecuting cases you're always -- you take your -- -- that you find in this is the real world people come from different backgrounds.
Education AG socioeconomic status is different environments but that doesn't me just because they can't articulate they aren't the best or most wealth prosecuting.
There -- I have to ironically they didn't have to call have to call -- had a column did not see how she's the best witness they had to say that it that Zimmerman started that.
All that they established with her with that -- Martin was on the phone that somebody's following me that's all the prosecution really and that is -- why you follow -- for and -- was trying to do different answers coming out of her but you know -- -- witnesses like that's what you put her on the stand and what I wanna know I want to know the prosecution said to her last night that got her to go from.
Being a total disrespect the witness and is it -- to -- deep and effect did.
Almost comatose with issue with that I want to know what that comment let me jump.
Here let me jump in your bid because the crucial issue in this case is was it self defense or wasn't right we know -- Zimmerman shot and killed -- -- on Martin.
We know that he followed -- on Martin -- you know what size can argue he stopped following him.
It says gonna say he didn't but it but let's -- what we do know is they they met back up again.
And somebody threw the first blow.
And then they wound up on the grass.
And so what should happen what is she really added to that other than they they came together again and trade -- said.
Why are you following me -- right and Zimmerman said what are you doing here.
And then they start a fight because we're gonna get more witnesses -- we're gonna say.
The kid in the -- that's straight on on top of Zimmerman beating him mixed martial arts style and -- wanted to see grass stained it knees -- -- -- on -- And grass and wet back.
Of George government.
Right and that's the problem the built in advantage for -- assuming in this case and the problem with the State's -- -- faced an uphill battle because there's only one -- eyewitness to this initial into -- and candidate candidate he's the defending.
So but I just wanna say her testimony is crucial because Jordan Zimmermann said when he encountered trade concentrate on safety -- Do you have a -- what's -- problem or something to that effect in this sucker punches him in the face this week.
Yeah and said you're gonna died -- night.
While he was beaten him in this witness is saying it did not happen like that it.
George soon that was the one who approached him -- train by saying why are you following me her testimony she's now we do have.
Phone records to cooperate the fact that she was on the phone with trade -- at some point during the full -- right and remember -- -- also says.
To the operator when he Jackson at some point -- you following him he says yes but yeah we don't need you to do that right -- says -- -- But -- back in terms of her testimony.
Her testimony is also backed up I would Georgia -- -- -- you look at the time stamps of -- phone calls she's a -- trade -- he's almost all of the operator they're both so why can't I can't I don't -- let's let's credit.
All of her testimony are -- and -- even apart or she says that she added to it on the stand which is -- -- -- on say get off get off which was new.
Right and that's always a red flag right -- you -- -- the other times you've got asked about this case are collect credit that lets say.
What she heard was why you found me and Zimmer response what are you doing here and and the next engineers as a struggle and -- the issue here -- on saying get off get off.
Does that answer anything.
About whether this -- self defense.
I think if it went down like that in the jury -- a full credit for that testimony it then in that case.
It does help the prosecution a little bit it's not the be all and all that doesn't prove the case but -- -- -- second degree murder because.
At Lenny has -- and one of the things is that bothered about this case from the beginning is we know -- Zimmerman followed.
Trip not we know heat you know I mean what are Harry think this case should come out.
He's on trial today because of his own.
Actions has he started to follow Trayvon Martin's -- -- and a nasty followed you a new aiming wrong he he followed up.
Because -- kid wasn't anything rock then a confrontation ensued we don't know who started it.
But -- this jury convict George Zimmermann of second degree murder because -- -- to follow this kid.
He created a situation in which -- on Martin was scared.
And whether -- on Martin threw the first punch or not it was Zimmerman who actually scared trade bond.
It wasn't the other way around until.
Train ride started punching back or sort of punching in the first if -- if the jury does that math that they will convict George -- -- -- second to him if they do the math that you just laid out.
-- George amendment is going -- -- like you get you started that you started issued a stating your car if you hadn't done that nothing else what have been seeing this -- would gone gone home.
You would gone home and that would have been the end of that but they're gonna get jury instructions and then and -- jury instructions are not gonna tell them.
What I -- they're not gonna say if you find that George Zimmerman started to -- -- Martin.
Then he can be found guilty of second degree murder that resulted in the death more with the president -- they're gonna get told you have to examines Jim -- state of mind at that time he was having that.
At issue right.
But the prosecution is going -- would argue that.
But look at what he did he -- into motion an entire set of circumstances that led to trade on -- -- How do you get into -- tonight that's why they got those previous phone -- because they're gonna use those phone calls to say that he was profiling.
Trade -- But -- that doesn't make you guilty of second degree murder so what they're gonna say as they think he's -- aired this kid they're gonna say he's scared the daylights out of this kid.
The reason trade I'm used those terms you know -- -- the other.
He's scared he definitely thinks he's creepy he's following me so even if you believe -- -- Martin threw the first punch in George that remembers the -- a prosecution.
That's still on Zimmerman Zimmerman is the one who created the fear.
And led -- -- -- to feel he had to defend himself so you can't let Zimmermann come before you now and say well I shot him in self defense.
But is that a lot doesn't the law allows government even if he.
You know creates the fear if he thinks he's about to get murdered.
But he has put himself into that situation and that's the difference here.
The lot -- -- Barbara second degree murder yet that you will spike hate turning your heart so that's where the profiling comes -- and -- obviously the embrace the air is not it.
Heat probe factory gone because he was hearing -- -- -- him it'd already been a racial and who he how he looked and how he was stress and the second.
You can't put yourself in -- situation and if someone is getting the best -- you think oh my god I have to use deadly force.
Now but is is that true it -- and that may be true that may take -- the stand your ground immunity defense from them.
But in a classic self defense case is it true that you that you cannot set up this circumstance where it straight -- scared.
-- -- throws the first punch if they can show that.
And then not use deadly force if you think he's about to kill you now the -- gonna say as long as George Zimmerman had a reasonable belief of harm upon itself doesn't have to be actionable.
It's well within Georgia -- mine and it's a reasonably prudent person would -- had that same belief.
That gives rise.
To this the underground defense are self defense self defense is a little different yet it's it's you know such a tragedy it's clear that both men.
We're misunderstanding each other dominating question and it resulted in the death of -- seventeen year old boy.
Panel thank you both no winners here Megan that would now there aren't -- you feel that you look at that you know that.
The true victims of that courtroom which of the parents -- trailer on March 19 Davis felt empathy for them thank you both.
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