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I guarantee you that in European capitals.
There are people who were interested in if not what I -- for breakfast at least what -- talking points might be should I end up meeting with their leaders.
That's how intelligence services operate.
That was President Obama at a press conference in Tanzania earlier this week responding to leaked allegations that the US -- On its allies the German magazine bearish people.
Reported last Sunday that the National Security Agency -- European Union offices and infiltrated the EU's computer networks.
The news was met with outrage abroad with German Chancellor Angela Merkel calling it un acceptable and French president Francois Hollande demanding.
It stopped immediately Wall Street Journal foreign affairs columnist Bret Stephens joins us with.
Faux outrage re allowed.
Rage I don't know there's there's gambling going on and at that Rick's place look at the combination.
Of incredible cynicism by European leaders who know perfectly well that this goes on all the time.
They do it themselves.
An incredible naivete by European public that doesn't understand -- -- commonplace -- -- -- -- social idea why that that is the outrageous if the leaders really know what's going -- a lot of it is simply political for instance Angela Merkel is facing federal election in September she wants to be.
Reelected and this is generated a tremendous amount of publicity in the wake of the snowed in revelations.
And so she's saying this is unacceptable on and must stop what is she what is he supposed to say well we all do it they don't don't like to think also it's a big bully America you know this is this is the way America behaves is in the part of that there's no question -- -- no question that there is there a great deal of anti Americanism at work here.
At the European Parliament said this makes George Orwell look like nothing talk about orwellian.
-- in its inadvertently being orwellian herself.
So yeah there's no question this -- there's a sense that this is Big Brother America of monitoring all communications all the time but do we really need to us.
By guest on our allies why well yeah let's let's knock down the idea that this is just all crazy spy vs spy activity.
In 2000 we went through this when the US program called Echelon came to the surface and the idea was the United States was stealing European technology there are basically two reasons why we do this -- The first one is to see whether European countries are bribing foreign officials for contracts in countries like Saudi Arabia as they have.
The second and put more perhaps more important is to look at technology transfers from Europe.
Two countries like Iran formerly it was Iraq that could be used to build nuclear.
Defense plants or other kinds of weapons of mass destruction.
Because there's been a lot of evidence over the last fifteen years that that has happened and so if you're imposing sanctions on a country like Iran or like North Korea you want to make sure that they're aren't our European companies leaking we're trying to break through that system.
We also know that the al-Qaeda cells that executed 911 operator out of Hamburg Germany and had -- been listening at improperly we might have.
Prevent a bright look I mean.
It's reasonable to wonder what exactly what sort of information we're getting with the European Commission.
Issues are regulation warning that water doesn't necessarily.
Prevent dehydration which in fact they did a two years ago but look just -- just this week Reuters had a story out of London that the Ecuadorian foreign minister.
Has discovered that there embassy in London where Julian Assange the WikiLeaks.
That that embassy had been -- Presumably by British intelligence this is the stuff that governments do so this -- -- sort of sense like oh my goodness you know how how could they possibly be doing this.
It's a little bit control we.
We each sentence Jonathan Pollard to rise in a life sentence he is when he for giving secrets to Israel are allies are we obviously didn't like it when.
Israel was spying on us why should.
We the other would not be outraged when we were spying on them.
Well look you know if they feel that compared vital secrets have been compromised on their on their part may be that it's maybe that can be a source of outrage.
All it was a bit different because he was handing over.
You -- secrets you US secrets that once compromise required billions of dollars to be replaced I think all the Europeans agree.
There's no vital secrets on their part have been compromised as a kind of question in the abstract this whether that should happen.
You know there's Africa's oldest fault that we I don't think we can -- and that's a fact that with -- that in the year.
-- your -- and EA surveillance.
We need this kind of intelligence operation going on but people are becoming very anxious I think about the idea of the state has all of this enormous informational power.
That they could use against people and so there could be some political push back and -- the -- be careful that it doesn't damage some of the really useful things that we do in these areas NSA yeah.
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