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Good morning it's -- had to go political insiders.
And -- -- -- a -- some changes.
On John the -- -- bottom our power trio is had to leave alone urgent family and emergency.
And Doug -- Is so being where you -- at the moment by another obligation on fox and we are joined today.
-- help sort of kind of a general discussion will be.
Are the real person -- makes political insiders work our genius behind the scenes producer.
Mark Martin Hinton who was here and I'm glad for everyone me a chance featured.
But now they can finally and they wanted to -- -- objective of the wizard behind the curtain.
So pat and I were discussing in the absence of Doug and John that that their specific.
Intelligence and knowledge of the world that might give way to a more general conversation about.
The state of America the mood of the nation.
In the context of things like what's happening in Egypt's what's happening here domestically in the economy of the delay of -- cop Obama care.
And I think the first -- we discussed looking that was one that is number three and it relates to.
People's perception of what our founding fathers would think of America.
Should there be a time machine that allowed them come forward today and if you look at it you can see that.
Of people believe that the founding fathers would have -- disappointed view and 27% would have a pleased to view and and I'd.
You're the poster how would you.
Characterize -- number dramatically.
Different numbers than their word over ten years ago.
When this question was first -- that it was a much closer 5050.
Proposition up -- -- -- little -- since the last couple of -- -- exploded the disappointment the belief that.
They would be just -- even this is their kind of a fourth of July poll only 5% Americans say they're proud of the Americans.
But same time over seven out of -- are saying the founding fathers just portable we have binding it's intriguing question I think it's a breakdown of government.
Since about the society.
And -- a sense that the country just is a uncertain.
Future that they trumpet sounds an uncertain note.
And and the -- that'd -- hostility in the in the and the -- so polarization in the political process.
How we talk to each other I think it puts its hold over everything that's happened -- just another.
Another new action of this idea that there there's a -- can agree discontent in this country that politically is not being spoken to.
For the record my background is not a politics I've never worked in in the world of campaigns like like pat has and Doug and John or polling.
One of interest things I've learned -- that -- plus working with you with that wording in polling is very they're very interesting and I notice and that pole its founding fathers and what were the founding fathers they were our first political leaders -- right -- and in some respects does that could apple be skewed to to be seen as sort of a judgment of the leadership class -- Oh absolutely I think you're actually right I think the American people believe in 1950.
Meters would should have been group who reason -- The American people believe their leadership class has failed the instant confidence institutions is as low or worse than ever.
We see the numbers on congress.
Martan where you know would barely single digits of approval.
The executive branch and others look I think -- you could make a very pretty huge wrong and pretty obvious case almost a purple pro -- Case that.
In the last fifteen or twenty years the political leader of this country are leading institutions and leaders have failed America whether we -- buyer.
Our economic troubles.
Our budget problems are general sense of wolves.
And and are in and most of all -- functional political system which remember.
The founding follows a very heart of our country.
He's a vibrant and healthy tomorrow.
With messages and because you you you -- very particular and -- choice words it's across the spectrum we're not looking at.
Whether it was during the Clinton administration or the Bush Administration -- Obama's vision this is something that the stretch as sort of an evolution of some of the last fifteen or twenty years -- in this.
Degradation of the quality of people who were.
Running for office the ability they have set execute honestly that that.
That mandate that there you know their two particular.
And I was arguing and what a little -- are you more news -- these political leader of our politics has become less accessible.
Both ammonium what I called the via phone of the those did speak the political class knows it's failing in -- way.
We know of a country the -- if you will or unhappy with the with them and and they've done everything they can -- call on -- would hold onto power.
And I think blogs -- polling to this affect Americans -- they put -- interest.
Their positions in power above the interest in the in the in in the success of the country.
When the people we have to depend on what we're supposed to.
In an -- in our society.
Are viewed as its self aggrandizing.
Well it does something everybody else.
That it it and it breaks the trust bonds that are necessary.
If you're gonna have effective leadership yes Americans will come together.
When there's a crisis were -- I mean that's vets to survivalists.
But otherwise we you know we seem to be a nation trip and I think people are very unhappy -- In the timeframe -- -- -- you came of your political agent in the seventies which was hardly a time of you know lots of daisies and there was a lot going on there has almost been seems to me.
Because I moved to American in 1975.
There's been this sort of death by a thousand -- it's -- every time you turn around and every time you open the paper it's everything from salacious tabloid scandals -- -- Leadership in congress or politicians in general it's.
You -- pork in bills that only self serve and you know getting you that 10% of votes you need to win your reelection in sixer.
To whatever how many years it is depending on where -- -- sitting congress.
Does that make it harder for people so wrap their head around what's happened and why -- why we feel the way we do about -- you when it's harder to see the path that's led us to.
Yes because been inexorable and in some ways he's been like our eyes adjust to the darkness.
We've seen this decline but which is hard to put a single thing -- on the 1970s.
Was an explosive time because so many of our.
Fundamental concepts about America had been upset Watergate had.
-- done great damage to the ideas of a -- of the presidency.
And -- and ultimately being -- of repository of public good.
The Vietnam War and -- devastating impact of American power and our and our own sense of idealism overseas.
And then from -- and then we had gas crisis and other things.
And then we went through a period to grow with Ronald Reagan we -- -- -- you know we had some recovery in and that we haven't been back in -- you know in dotcom -- But somehow the fundamentals haven't changed much and now it just seems to be inexorably going the same and that's why it's it's interesting about that poll.
Was that is really exploded in recent years I think we may have it.
In watching dysfunction -- system in -- and in the polarization.
I think -- be that we may have had one of those.
Straw the broke the camel's back moments and we have -- -- prices jumped the shark moment -- -- Kirk Bowman I mean look this ridiculous is some good news.
The United States I keep saying historians are gonna look back souvenirs or -- -- left to look back.
And they're gonna look at this about Obama care.
We're gonna say.
How -- choosing a nation.
We choose and -- fiscal crisis.
In debt is to entitlements in real in real crisis is all of the one entitlements Medicare Social Security whatever in crisis in the funding.
Indeed huge -- And then.
It just then just passing another massive entitlement.
For the you know for -- -- fifth of the economy thrown in in champ down people's throats and now this thing is imploding.
I mean we've seen the last week.
The you know I described when obamacare was Paris there was a crime against democracy.
The country Mormon in and we shoved down by the Democrat -- by one party first time we've had a major entitlement in this country.
Without a single -- of the opposition.
-- -- -- -- 820 some hundred page bill that Nancy Pelosi the speaker at the -- said well we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it.
And now we're finding out than just look at the last week.
The president's administration see I mean they do it in on on the eve of the fourth of July announcement on the blog at -- That they have delayed one of them they're delaying unilaterally.
One of the key provisions.
Which use the employer mandate.
Of obamacare we you famously says to me that is that if you remember congress I think -- you wouldn't vote on the bill that was over 200 -- I have a very serious view which -- That the new deal legislation the first hundred days in the great democratic DR when that's the other great crisis sessions -- the Great Depression very right.
That the -- -- first hundred days legislation is about 200 pages.
And if you can't if you pass a bill.
Or some subject like this is complicated at 1214100.
Pages immigration health -- let me tell you it is a boondoggle from -- -- -- And -- Rube Goldberg and it is it is god knows which serves we -- seeing that with the health care.
And by the way you don't fingernails today -- on Friday on top of this which I think is even more spectacular.
You're supposed to be able to if you qualify.
For obamacare to get a subsidy if you if your income or your -- Yeah well now they've said they have no way of checking so anybody can claim anything you know -- so so we're gonna have a system now -- -- -- people could be just sign up.
Tell us what you want already checked do you subsidiary is insanity going on if what what what word you said that application -- having equipment that might be what enormous interest -- -- yes I write pretty adaptive.
Well if one quarter of because of the of the -- credit.
-- deductions are found to be a legitimate.
-- -- Then my god what happens -- bodied people you can pay any of us.
Let us supply and -- they won't checks are taking this 2000 page plus bill and trying to as hard as it is take yourself outside of them tomorrow or the you know intelligent.
However you feel about universal health care or whatever -- you want to use to describe it.
The dilemma with some plan that so complex.
It seems to be being realized now is they didn't really have any understanding of how implementation was you know don't -- -- service together they took care of the special little pissed.
Bill was designed.
It is -- -- he legitimately he had left out the trial lawyers who were one of the greatest cost the -- me don't live to medical cost factors you were allowed to have insurance across state lines.
The a drug industry was bought out to begin with -- deal which is they would be -- There were compromises made the formulation of this bill that were immoral.
In been prominent a bunch young bureaucrats in the house from whatever -- some stitches together and nobody read the bill.
Then if -- Pelosi statement is an indictment -- Barnhart political system via.
And in there for the American people weren't -- dog ate my homework version of politics -- it's what it's just throw something on the wall.
We'll look what are we get fifty -- to -- reload my health care bill.
That would be is good -- with this what is.
It's exploding in our faces its 17% of the economy what is -- doing.
It's driving employers.
Not to hire people so they don't have to qualify although now the -- biggest with a million exemption per year.
We saw all the unions who were supporting it get exempted.
This is -- political boondoggle.
From India in in the worst thing is him when there's another poll we have been that's worth putting these doubleheader opener for.
But -- first one is on the repeal.
A lot more sure one flight one you know you can see now just look at these numbers -- keep increasing.
For the repeal -- -- it is -- -- comes closer implementation.
So on this -- one of the things we've seen in the house of more than a few times and we've discussed this -- of importance and in America if you get down to the founding fathers.
Ideas come out.
They're banged around.
Bad ideas fall by the wayside good ideas -- improved -- -- Compromise on compromise and -- conversation.
And that's because you have healthy honest opposition to ideas it's not driven by getting the right.
Pork in the bill or whatever else they wouldn't want to call it these days to make it sound like it's not as bad as it is just wasting our money.
This is you see this and a lot of legislation -- I.
While -- -- -- immigration let me just finish since the North -- immigration because of next I think -- this health -- thing is gonna do great damage immigration.
But there will be you know that the and the continuing increase from warning to repeal it but look at slide to.
How does obamacare make you -- -- your health care in the future.
Look at this in July 201251.
A majority 51 were worried 36 reassured.
To date two thirds are worried and 43 -- recaptured.
This -- announcing all the -- working the way it's supposed to there was he disappears off Africa.
To waste a hundred million dollars from.
It when we can't have White House stores they have to announce -- by the way what we're we're we're coming up pieces of the bill.
This is this is bad people that people will promise you health care would be better who didn't believe the dead and they know what -- And they're asking how could this happen and then look at immigration.
We have an immigration bill that is now 12100 pages -- all the by the -- is filled with provisions one the pay off casino.
Casinos -- lost the -- stuff the -- interest in Florida for Marco Rubio.
In Alaska the salmon industry I mean this thing it just filled with but this and -- problem.
And that is being asked today so much an immigration bill and did you convention this year in the inference junior's statement was about trust.
-- -- of the government moved into the executive branch inserting certain things.
The Obama of this this dispensation.
Of the mandate.
-- -- -- the law says shall be implemented by December 31.
The administration decides what laws should it follows -- which -- it doesn't.
So immigration people -- about immigration are saying when -- the part about border security.
Whoa oh what what does he keep you from hiring not hiring the -- well of not having the borders secured just asserting.
Which -- saying -- putting politics first ideology ideological rigidity in place of everything.
In American common sense.
-- -- So we have the consumer confidence index right.
I mean I've found a possible strikes me as a political confidence thing that's a good way to put it you know -- we we have even when someone.
And how so how hard is -- -- for someone to stand up and and appeared new as a politician as though and fresh and then.
Get that message to the people.
And get elected and then also survived what happens well -- arrive in the Rossi first ball to survive their emergence I mean they've would be brave people would look.
The political class the political style Richmond.
Are like they're there there it's it's primal.
They smell a threat they try to kill.
I think you've seen a white -- Cruz when I watch Ted Cruz who's a senator for five months.
By not only the last which senses that there's something this guy gets causes waves.
But also the establishment the Republican Party -- -- -- -- by John McCain.
-- and I'm going this is what happens -- new voices so but they have to do is build movements with them.
It's not enough to send one person somebody's coming gauge the American people and say I will -- believe people have to get involved.
Because no one person's going to be able -- change the system.
We changed his sister we must if you keep electing the same political politicians.
You'll keep getting the same kinds of results.
And they -- for you've got changed the political paradigm I argue -- John and and Doug and wolf minority.
-- you know that this is less about left and right Democrat conservative.
It is about the -- should -- America which feels he will need an isolated.
From the government from its leadership.
You know win -- -- congress who says poll number we -- this -- The idea -- a government in Washington operate with the consent.
Of the American people.
And three quarters the American people say no that is -- was the very basis read the declaration of independence revolution.
The what's -- thing about that is with.
With polls you get.
Perception what people believe is the case right and and but the numbers get that high as I sort of understand -- the perception becomes reality -- by sheer weight of that the number of people who believe it's the case right and it -- very hard to change their opinion to operated in a way that makes them think that you're doing anything of them being self serving selfish.
And so there are -- sort of barriers that that that that of the points of no return in in polling about something and you would see that as one of these sort of but I don't think so I mean we're talking about a generational shift where people for Irish which the significance of the time we're gonna have a a hard time.
What I'm saying is when the count when the vast majority these numbers are challenging the very premise of what the country's based.
Has been found.
Do we should have a pretty -- fourth of July.
And this is in it means because democracy only works if these people.
You know will will watch -- the RS in the in the in the distrust.
It works because there is a willingness and a society of of many different kinds of people.
Two except majority rule.
To a -- wall into sport one and when that breaks down.
Then that's democracy -- I think we need to take a quick break and and we should come back and talk a little more about immigration American -- in the control room.
So political insiders -- back I'm Martin -- producer who work with works with John -- and pat.
John is not here today but Doug has joined us from the Fox News Channel -- he knew that was delayed so we're gonna pick up our conversation here with.
Immigration and immigration -- yeah I've Purcell welcome Martin and -- disappointed job is done here it's great to have you on.
Finance and to be of course -- -- finally be exposed to get tickets to a great president whoever it there broken up in the immigration bill.
Started as what I think a good idea for a good idea and bipartisanship right now.
You've got a tortuous thirteen year path to citizenship.
20000 new border guards.
A limited basis support in the senate I think fourteen Republican senators.
Unclear in fact I think pretty clear that there won't -- A majority of house Republicans.
Voting for the bill so that the matter is going to be dead in the water the president's agenda.
Has not really -- -- any score I think immigration is gonna fail as it did in 2006 do you agree -- Yeah I was just saying and I think this latest stuff but health care which I was just we we didn't have election we expect that -- that we heard about.
But this latest thing -- -- -- -- you're gonna you can apply for any they're not in miniature we -- pipers substantive right to -- Which is one of the great that's a great and -- -- to -- But I think that the sense about immigration it is.
If you go to an administration like you know health care bill would change -- the ball whatever field that they cannot be trusted to what you write in the legislation is all.
Then would we trust and I think this the reverberations of this obamacare thing wolf the scope and the size he's going to undermine immigration.
I think the immigration bill is really.
Something that the president's ratings were ten points higher would have a better chance but now it's hanging out there and where where I completely agree with you pat.
-- I believe that the administration tried to sneak -- the -- of the employer mandate.
A year back at the eve of the fourth of July however I think it's continuing to reverberate the polls continue to show.
How unpopular it is and bottom line the Obama agenda entirely is -- DO -- What now what about that from the GOP -- we've got the Lindsey Graham suddenly we should play that that number seven on our list and we can react to it.
The political side of this.
Hispanic vote not because conservatism as bad as -- the rhetoric around immigration has tainted.
The Republican Party brand with Hispanic community for no good reason.
Senior senator from -- stated.
I'm becoming more and more Norton but I have to admit it even worse for bird friendly -- there -- against them no I'm sorry I don't do that I'm I'm I'm I'm all our cart path.
Yeah I know you -- thank you via but you know here's here's here's the thing.
You don't eat the Jersey you can make immoral in -- that there's a moral imperative for immigration we must deal.
He could make a policy.
What we get up and say the reason they're doing is because that's how we lost the election we're gonna win votes you can guaranteed first ball that that.
Very assumption it backwards that's not what enables.
And it looks craven is much I think that's -- insulting.
As anything you could say about why you should be for something -- Scott the the ideologue in the base of the Republican Party up and all works.
Well I I think you make a very good point there is no policy basis other than the need to cobble together a solution.
Behind the whole immigration bill consequently it's gonna fall of its own way.
And this is one of those cases sadly where bipartisanship I think works against rather than for the greater good so -- -- viewing this as sort of a magic pill.
Coach was certainly fallen so revote hurtful it's not -- -- lost the election they lost patience worse and Asians by the -- there's the by discussing Asian immigration problems.
That that's that that's the thing.
-- -- If it was a false analysis and this is how history is made.
This is call -- talked winner march of -- -- handedness is this definition.
Doing something in defiance of the reality.
In pursuit of BP keep doing -- -- war.
With that we are history forward Doug shown and packet out and John -- -- I'm Martin -- Political insiders -- back on the Fox News Channel next Sunday at 530 and then back here next Monday morning at 10:30 AM thank you very much for joining us thank you.
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