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The girl in my adult novel here at foxnews.com -- -- event.
Headquarters in New York City it's fifteen minute break there I'm joined by doctor Michael Baden forensic pathologist.
And of course we have great TCs on which means love from Fred is a former assistant US attorney.
And before the break got good morning to both of you think and I would it dramatic before minutes and usual.
And usually I think.
Big figures saying you know my thirty years of the practicing and and being in a courtroom you've never seen anything like that so basically what a -- did was.
You have this long dramatic -- -- a -- -- the amount of time that -- on -- Would have had to run right.
And it could have been dramatic patty stood up again to two -- -- said that it you know what worst fire worst impassioned by this guy I mean it's like.
Listen I -- I -- I fully expect him only raises hand of the same live long and prosper if he's like Mr.
-- and Clinton jury and then for those of us who almost -- Mr.
He knows -- -- -- -- for the record and there's a new breed and I'm glad I can't tell any difference at it and so let me but -- -- it's very kind of it's almost like he's being professorial which is not what this case calls for.
Yeah I think is interesting because he have a jury that's been sequestered -- there what -- -- weeks is so.
Just thinking about this case so they know this case probably been in the lawyers from all the testimony.
And it seems to me is anomaly that.
Talking down to them rather than assuming they know what to what.
Has transpired from the different witnesses.
I think it was -- his thing.
He opens up.
With the kinds of -- you have to know things to a certainty beyond a reasonable doubt.
And that's what the experts have talked to.
But his expert -- -- the may have very excellent forensic pathologist.
-- he was is to do was to say.
Is it consistent with all his -- where it's consistent with -- -- being on top.
Consistent with his not medical certainty it's 1% 99%.
Many New York courts wouldn't allow that kind of testimony and because it's.
It isn't and experts saying in my opinion.
This is the way it happened saying it could have happened that way.
And that's why he winds up saying.
Initially and direct that this trade the mountain top and then and quote saying.
-- it could have been that -- Zimmerman was on top so it doesn't really do much information.
That's an interesting point it can't admit -- as a defense lawyer -- -- be doing is driving on the fact that -- until the jury the state bears the burden.
Be on at a reasonable doubt you've heard conflicting testimony about who to screen for coming from you've heard conflicting testimony about who was on top.
You've heard conflicting testimony about whether he was following somebody or whether he was.
Keeping an -- as he was instructed to by the police in at the end of the day when all you have is conflicting testimony you cannot as a matter of law.
Find -- defending guilty beyond a reasonable doubt that's the.
-- a -- but Fred he's not at the closer yet.
We're still obviously run I don't know that's a -- and get out W I I hear you you can take as much time player wants to but the bottom line is really.
It -- know what you said there is very lots of inflection in your voice heard course makes me pay attention to what you're saying but it's really a matter of style.
Because really what -- -- came out the gate.
Saying to the jury is is basically -- you know that and fears about dead.
Choosing he talked about that.
Fears that the fear about how great the system is that you choose jurors.
People who weren't people from normal walks of life who have the least understanding in the system.
He has that's what's great about our system.
And that's what causes me great fear because you're -- he he was to make sure that you you you don't know -- -- -- George you don't know how to apply.
The standard of reasonable doubt you don't really know that you can't help but see you have a first impression.
And -- go ahead.
-- I think unfortunately.
In my non legal mind that kind of approach.
Is like the knock knock joke that fell flat low when they opened up first yes but with -- -- knocking who's there yet to address the majority of a new.
That's why bring -- on the -- -- as if -- -- as if the jury is.
Don't know one thing the end zone read the newspaper there was -- and I'm more and so I think if they understood the joke it's a slap -- the jury is and here after all these weeks.
He had -- -- the jurors -- something.
But they can remember to his job is to be an advocate and part of your job is and -- is -- -- to argue for your client.
But at the same time instruct the jury that's your job that's what you do yes I mean can you need to do both of them that you that you touched on.
I think they perfectly good example of that he told the jurors.
That he was afraid that they would come to a compromise current.
Very -- it would have been that it would be really should have been doing the same ladies don't -- jury.
You need to put I need vehicle put those fears aside.
Because when you started this case you raise your right hand you put your other hand on the proverbial Bible and you swore to uphold the law as instructed to you by the judge.
-- -- and no where did that judge tell you.
That you can reach a compromise verdict you must apply the law but the fact is -- find -- he can teach and advocating that -- But I would use -- they -- police saying Fred is that he is actually.
-- is pointing out to the jury is that you don't have these -- this they didn't provide provide enough facts.
But it didn't end so don't connect the dots don't he's saying.
It -- those very interesting he says don't use your motherly instincts.
To connect that that one knows he's gonna drive mothers out there of course and he was to make sure that those motherly instincts don't jump in and jump forward.
And to make those jurors connect dots that would spine his client field.
See you -- -- and that's right but also.
He has one juror I think who's an animal specialist -- -- this.
And there have been medical exam unfortunately volunteered that he shoots pigs with the -- -- -- analyst.
Who was who would not be well received by the.
-- your principles that a little bit of sound bite from Maris closing argument from this morning business market marriage saying.
How many this dress talking about -- how many could have beens have you heard from the state explained that but the prosecutors present it was not.
How many great news heavy burden from the state.
To me what else have you heard from the stage in this case.
A little I don't think anybody can get to ask you that.
I don't think they get to say to you.
What do you think.
I don't know.
-- true to.
We're -- to convince you beyond a reasonable doubt occurred in this case so much so that you don't.
Reasonable doubt as -- those issues that -- presented to you.
There are supposed to use words like certainty and definite.
And without question.
Beyond a reasonable doubt.
No other explanation.
-- the words and phrases and -- prosecutors.
I used to -- -- I know.
-- -- What do you think that I myself that this -- took advantage is that.
Yes it should be beyond a reasonable doubt but it was interesting that what the best -- and pathologists.
In the country and gunshot wounds.
Give his opinions not -- reasonable certainty but to.
Consistent with and consistent with the -- 1% to -- 9% and that's -- I think in in great measure.
The forensic evidence really cancels itself out.
You can't tell who the aggressor is by the forensic evidence and it.
That doesn't mean there's no case there because very often as I understand when there's no medical -- -- very -- around.
Jurors make decisions -- on the credibility of witnesses.
And they had a lot of witnesses and they may he be persuaded by some witnesses more than others and that's -- the -- job in that goes beyond the -- forensic science.