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Think it's just your privacy under attack we'll try your wallet to -- deet tails exposing how much phone companies are charging the US government.
For all that's surveillance and the government is paying for with your taxpayer money.
In just a single wiretap estimated to cost 50000 dollars.
Is this outrage or if it keeps us safe is this a small price to pay hi everybody thank you so much for joining us this morning welcome to -- on FOX.
I'm Elizabeth MacDonald filling in for David Asman.
Let's go in focus with rich Karl guards the greatest -- John -- Rick Unger Mike is -- and we welcome -- contribute then Mitchell Tibetan got a great crew John what do you think.
Even if these wiretaps were free they still wouldn't be worth it to -- in modern times we've given up liberty.
Under the false assumption that the people the federal government whom we know to be fallible can somehow protect us.
On this is a bad bad risk to take in a free society there is risk involved but it's worth it to live in this.
And we should defend our liberties rather and so easily given them up.
Current current you know to -- -- -- point what's weird here is that's -- to become a profit center do you think spying should be a profit center for a US companies.
Look the military industrial complex is always going to be inefficient there's always going to be corruption.
But you know this is not where this is not bean ball that we're playing with.
Islamic terrorists and it's not being -- -- were playing in this new information Cold War with China and Russia.
And so forth and this is not a war that we can ever afford to finish second in so I you know I I think it's a murky area I think John brings up a lot of points.
But this is you know our liberties are are really depending on our safety to.
Yes Sabrina were brought -- -- record average -- -- is saying is you know there is no bigger civil violation and being murdered on your week.
To work when you're buying -- commute.
They hit -- -- it out your local law enforcement has been basically paying for wiretaps.
I think since 1994 right under the Clinton administration -- set aside half a billion bucks for -- The NSA may charge a nominal fee for emails but the question is.
What's what's the right way to go should taxpayer pay for the money or not.
I think buying or not.
Yeah I would John on this what I don't think this is a conversation about taxes support terrorism I think this is a conversation about our civil liberties and our constitution.
And I think how that is right look I mean we are living in a brave new world in which.
That their traditional military industrial complex in which we had.
Sort of physical plants is no longer what winds war is now big data is what wins wars and so we have to be extra vigilant.
Make sure that our privacy in our liberties or protect it.
You know by -- stronger if it the American -- -- there's gonna say yeah we understand that wanna catch a terrorist wanna stop the bad guys.
But at a time when the IRS has more information about us than ever before at a time -- the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is -- -- launch and a huge massive database collecting information.
And everyone's credit -- mortgages car loans I think the American people out there are saying yeah there may be limits to basically paying for spying or all of the surveillance going on going.
Had you haven't left let's -- -- and it's really not murky and all the kind of wiretaps were discussing here.
-- -- what you've been reading about about the meta data that he NSA's collecting volumes of every day.
These are wiretaps that result from a court.
Issuing a specific warned these are the wiretaps that are used to listen in on mobsters that have been brought down by these wiretap or.
And now we're focused on terrorists not just generally gathering material this is when the -- We didn't have let me quickly follow -- with Rick -- put the -- fights a court basically is -- being accused of being a rubber stamp I think going back to 79 Dave.
Basically -- 99%.
Of all the fights that report surveillance requests so.
Then what's the checks and balance and and then but also pay for the information may be nominal fees paid -- go ahead yeah I.
This I have to agree with you on the checks and bounces I think there should always be an attorney represented the people at fights a court hearings that something that should be changed but again.
Very important these are not the meta data.
Things that we're hearing about this is a -- there's a reason.
To go after is that worth the money you tell me if you're listening on terrorist planning something or organized crime.
Breaking -- -- yeah.
This is worth -- my Palestinian united Rick congress point were loving and that the nature of nuclear the fears of nuclear terrorism certainly buyout talks and think that terrorism fears.
What do you think where do you come down.
But the problem is right now we Mac is and nobody can trust the president of the United States -- you -- -- -- -- -- His deceptions about Obama care.
The IRS scandal all those deceptions we need is somebody who can come out which would be the president say look.
This is the cost this is exactly what we're doing with wiretapping.
In terms of the information we -- and yes it's worth it because it stopped terrorist attacks.
CNN poll shows.
Of the people in this country do not trust the president all when it comes to these wiretaps -- that's far worse than it was -- President Bush you need a leader to take the lead on is somebody that country can trust and we don't have that.
You know ten -- salient point and welcome Dan Mitchell served it to be with that you're with us today.
I didn't actually -- -- to -- in -- point I mean the airports where air force just said this past week.
Said to the Booz Allen didn't but make it -- do any violations of the law you're in the clear.
And this guy at the NSA walked out with a thumb drive information 40050000.
People work at the NSA anybody can walk out with the information.
And that's kind of -- it's the American people out there do you think though that there should be and not just more.
Checks and balances but do you think that's -- should be a profit center and navy make it more transparency can.
Stop those problems.
I don't want -- sound -- the boring economist but we really need to apply some cost benefit analysis.
Is this have been just another former corporate welfare for these telecommunications.
It sounds like what's having an awful lot of money for things that I as -- just.
Involve clicking a computer keyboard a few times.
To start monitoring someone and yes of course we need the checks and balances not only in the narrow cost benefit sense but as John Candy was talking about.
I'm Sabrina was talking about what about our liberties how -- we put a value on that.
Do we really want government collecting all this information -- as.
Yeah I don't trust Obama but I didn't trust bush either and I don't trust the run of the mill government bureaucrat we've seen too many examples.
Individual citizens being harassed and -- it just because some bureaucrat.
Besides that they don't like them so yes we need to somehow I figure out how does control the size and scope of government.
Rick -- go ahead how do you do a cost benefit analysis.
On the value -- I've tracking terrorist.
My family's priceless I sure I'm sure you feel the same way about yours.
Yeah now doesn't really know let's say he doesn't -- -- -- really important.
-- -- at best this is corporate welfare but at worst went when that when businesses at the service of the government.
Now we're getting towards national socialism so I think I we have something that the cost benefit analysis is furious.
I'm this is not and this is not simply about liberty verses terrorists and we have to consider what this means a long term of -- -- -- Jun ten -- -- -- you don't want to make this -- go -- wait wait I just wanna make this clear we're talking about whether taxpayers should pay for this information.
Whether this -- should be made a profit center.
We know that -- spends day Mitchell's pointing out that bureaucrats will leak information that our information could get out there in the marketplace.
How do you protect it and shouldn't shouldn't be a profit -- go -- -- I don't think I don't think you can protected but I think going back to that point about whether we can trust Obama.
That's ultimately irrelevant the problem here -- we're going down a slippery road.
Even if we can't trust Obama there's going to be someone in the future whom we can't.
Who's going to use this information in the wrong way and the trick is to stop but now it's not about bush or Obama it's about what -- bureaucrats and politicians will do in the future.
-- -- anybody effect in order for people to make that type of decisions they need about how much liberty they're willing to give -- to get so much safety what cause they need to be able to trust the man at the top.
And we're always gonna have a president I hope.
And to that and you need to have so you can trust and Americans for good reason do not trust Obama and that's the central issue here -- -- guard final point.
Other central issue is life is murky out there and there are a lot of bad guys in this isn't it a tough issue that we're all gonna have to work through but you know.
As I've said before on this show the constitution is not a suicide pact.
Okay thanks -- up now.
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