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In the wake of -- landmark rulings by the Supreme Court on same sex marriage my next guest says evangelicals have to wake up and invests in changing the culture not policies.
Evangelicals invested millions of dollars into defending the defense of marriage act which the high -- declared unconstitutional.
John Dickerson says the repeal of -- marks another milestone in the rapid decline of Christian influence in America and he's offering suggestions of how evangelicals and strong I -- hopeful change.
In his book the great evangelical recession -- joins me now from Phoenix welcome John thank you Lauren great beyond.
I wanna get some clarification on exactly what evangelical recession actually means it does sound like it's -- -- some very bad news here.
Yet you know that they even -- recession is kind of parallel to the financial recession if you remember back to 2006.
You know the economy was soaring people were taken out you know tens of thousands of dollars home equity -- and it seemed like the economy was invincible but.
A Great Recession.
Was building underneath them.
When we look at a lot of -- critical health indicators.
Evangelical christianity as a historic movement.
What we see is a lot of similar trends -- we're not.
Converting on believers at the rate that we -- to be we're -- a lot of our young people.
Funds are declining and so I do argue that even though I'm an evangelical pastor and I -- the movement that it's on the verge of its own recession.
But is -- part of sort of religions decline in general or is this particular to evangelical Christians.
That's a great point -- it is part of religious decline in general in the United States I mean.
It seems every few months a new poll is coming about out about the increase of the nuns.
Americans who aren't affiliated with any religious group and so this is -- -- part of -- larger trend.
I mean if you're saying that the -- restraining.
A sort of hateful towards christianity.
In what way -- you know we're seeing.
And I'll just give you one example here's how.
That's how rapidly the culture's changing in 1996 Gallup.
Took a poll of Americans and as recently as 1996.
Majority of Americans were opposed to same sex marriage now within just fifteen years by the 2000 the year 2000 -- them.
That number had -- and the vast majority of Americans supported.
Same sex mattered so here in in fifteen years from 96 to 2000 -- -- We see the entire country the culture of America.
Flipping on an issue that was with staple for more than 200 years is the message wrong or is it.
The way they're presenting wrong.
Correct I think it's the way that we're presenting if you ask typical on believer or you know outsider.
What do evangelicals believe what are they known for.
They're gonna say things that we are guests they still evangelicals are against same sex marriage evangelicals -- against abortion evangelicals are known for.
What we're -- and it when you look at Jesus he wasn't a -- he he he didn't shy away from difficult statements.
But he was radically known for what he was four.
That he came to preach a message of good news -- -- to bring.
Forgiveness he came to bring new life and and that's ultimately what I'm calling for -- a lot of young evangelical leaders -- We want to be known again for what we're four and not what we're again.
But whose fault is that we're sending out that message that the young people are getting is it it is it Christians -- grit at evangelicals that are sending up that message.
Or is it a culture that has defined.
What evangelicals are.
Absolutely line yeah I actually I I think -- the great question you posed and I think the answer is well.
Absolutely I mean you look at surveys of university professors -- -- one survey in my book.
That was done actually by Jewish group.
And -- -- university professors were asked that which of these religions do you have negative feelings towards well.
Only 3% negative feelings towards Jewish religion.
20% negative feelings towards Muslims 53%.
-- negative feelings towards evangelicals so.
Absolutely in academia.
In media there there is a negative message about evangelicals being perpetuated.
I I think that we deserve some of the -- too.
I think that through some political positions and other things that are.
Our -- maybe great positions to take.
It's almost like we've forgotten.
You know christianity is about relationships on the ground and and then we just get on national TV or or write columns.
Or or even you know hold up picket signs that say we're against this were against that.
But we're not going into the lives of our homosexual friends and neighbors and say hey you know we love you and ours is ultimately a message of love.
While a little bit of a -- -- that was that we we've set a lot of old planes you're saying that that evangelicals should.
Spend more time changing the Coulter and not changing policies.
How are they going to do that.
To be clear Jesus that this -- much is given.
Much is required and we've been born and at one of the most incredible democratic republics in world history and so.
You know I think even Christians should get out and vote according to their biblical conscience but what I'm arguing is that we should.
We should not put our faith.
We shouldn't put our trust in passing a certain law we should put our trust in Jesus and his word and what did he say to -- he said.
Go and make disciples -- so that just happens one person at a time it's it's really -- humble quiet work as we.
We just make relationships with people and we love them.
And we show them hey you know when you've followed Jesus it's a life of peace and hope it's fulfilling and it's freeing.
That's what we are to be busy ourselves with -- followers of Christ.
-- thank you very much John Dickerson and your book is called the great evangelical recession.
Very interesting but thank you so much for being a spirited debate thank you on.
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