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It is hot hot hot and how about this story the IRS whistle blower who says it it was higher -- in Washington.
-- -- the Tea Party groups she says it was not subordinates like car in Cincinnati and she's gonna speak publicly.
For the first time is going to be a big deal folks' house oversight committee.
Has invited Elizabeth -- -- -- IRS agent in the Cincinnati emerging issues unit to speak her mind to them.
Jordan secular joins me now executive director of the American to ask Jennifer -- justice.
He and his organization -- represent forty -- of the Tea Party conservative groups who are now suing.
The IRS Jordan walk on good morning to you.
It -- be she she just says some very powerful things in her testimony she says that lowest Lerner.
Basically tried to dump all of this in their laps and that she took her direction.
Really from Carter hall in Washington when it came to scrutinizing these groups right.
That's right and she will be sitting next to Carter hole in the big question will be marked the first is -- Carter hole actually testify he is.
Eight senior IRS he was -- -- highest legal specialist.
And tax exempt organizations to.
All the sudden retired.
With the scandal came out.
She implicated him remember way back in the beginning when they wouldn't herb written testimony said.
I couldn't do anything this guy which would let me make a decision he demanded everything.
These were all people in Washington who worked for what was learner so the question will be.
Elizabeth normal that would cheat would I would hop baker talks about -- -- if Carter holt testifies it doesn't take the fifth.
Does he -- -- -- all I was doing.
Was what lowest Lerner told me to do.
And this was just the chain of -- -- and -- ever would point to her.
So we do are we don't know whether or not he will be speaking or whether he will definitely be sitting -- -- all this happens on Thursday.
It you know it could be like what happened -- lowest murder could show up take the fifth he could -- he -- show up.
His attorney could announce tomorrow he's not gonna show up -- that you know if the -- have.
I did that didn't that we don't exactly know the list was still developing I mean -- just moments before we we came on air.
But what we do know I'll tell you his -- her whole life slowest learner and holly -- and others at the IRS.
Is one of those officials marked who is mid -- -- our lawsuit so they are facing.
Civil lawsuits this.
Criminal investigation that supposedly happening they would be of course the people that would be investigated.
So it will be interesting to know.
If they testify Ed Ed because half -- in Cincinnati was the first what to say listen we're not taken the blame for this.
You guys -- Washington created this you're the ones who told everybody to sit me all the applications.
And I think it also goes back market to the idea that the the left his tried and tried to make this now about.
Targeting all political groups they're gonna do this to the inspector general who's been called testified and half -- -- -- can also talk about that.
Yes she can Jordan because when you look at her testimony.
She says well we didn't deal with any progressive or liberal groups on -- in my task.
Oriented group all we were told to deal with was specifically Tea Party and conservative groups so -- you know the suggestion.
That a lot of this was sort of put into the -- -- and shook out based on whether or not these groups were political.
Goes away if Elizabeth topic is time the trip because she says -- I was told look for conservative and Tea Party groups that's your job right.
-- this is the question right -- -- we know that -- the documents only the Tea Party was given to Hertz said you know give these over to -- baker -- -- baker will coordinate this with Washington.
And be in the exempt organizations the tax office the rules -- -- regulation holly -- and lowest alert.
Carter -- she -- Carter hole.
All the other documents yes we've seen the word progressive you know how we've seen it one document it said Tea Party groups -- like progressive once they don't should be treated the same.
And another it was just for progressives who were 501 C three's they can't be involved in politics of Europe.
A liberal activist group probably a five wood two -- not the right designation if you want to be involved in campaign.
That's why where are all these groups if they were targeted because I think what happier to left spoke out Q did the Tea Party targeting.
This all this -- said great we've got a political salvation here.
Ed -- -- know -- actually got targeted.
Because there's no -- to speak you know there's no action if the IRS put the model list maybe that was wrong but what if they didn't do anything with a list.
And you know enters -- being aggrieved.
Elizabeth hot hot baker will be testifying to that as well because she complained to the higher ups in Washington that she was getting all of these.
I -- faxes and phone calls from Tea Party and conservative groups who are saying what's up with my application I've been waiting for so long.
And then she you know of course was was the gatekeeper and frustrated and try to get some movement on -- from Washington she finally quit her job right.
That's right she said -- -- -- I can't do this.
And she also -- implicated who should be sitting Dexter Carter hole.
He's again that the tax exhibit he was being legal specialists -- an attorney.
Who retired all of the sudden.
After the scandal started he'd been at the iris for decades and so he retired.
He has been implicated as there as the author of many of the it appropriate and unconstitutional.
Question -- that he was that giving -- -- to send out.
So this is a key moment.
Does Carter hole.
Take the fifth because he's worried or does he try to shift the blame it if he does shift the blame mark that we've -- this why this hearing is so important.
And actually speak it say listen I was just doing what I was told.
Will this lead to lower -- possibly getting immunity because she's the only one who can really talk to.
What we don't know.
Who can put the pieces sat together -- potentially.
With the help of Elizabeth -- -- can be very interesting to see what comes out on Thursday.
And clearly as you point out Jordan whether or not Carter hall.
Who may be very central to knowing whether or not -- came from Washington and was told to these employees in Cincinnati.
To carry out may be revealed on Thursday as while Jordan thank you we'll see -- They can --
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