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My head of the IRS hearing tomorrow explosive new testimony out today house Republicans say proves -- office of the -- chief counsel.
Had a role in the targeting.
And most -- the former director of exempt organizations had a hand in those Tea Party the -- to the house oversight committee chairman.
And when the lawmakers leading the investigation into the IRS and friend -- -- California Republican Darrell Issa chairman thank you for joining us tell us what to expect tomorrow.
We'll expect to hear what is essentially a progress report as we've gone through interviews.
Of individuals in Cincinnati and now in Washington.
We see something that we we expected but we had to prove.
Which is people in Cincinnati were the first contact point.
They reported to Washington.
Rural Washington reported up the chain and 848 year veteran in Washington is going to.
To the two places that we need to go next to -- Lerner who obviously had appears to have a hand in it.
And the office of the console.
Which is a political appointment office.
Where they assigned three lawyers to it and much of the decision for more almost three years was made -- Let let let's talk about that a little bit I believe you talk about Carter hall is that right.
We are we are a long term veteran just having retired and an expert on -- -- -- -- another exempt organization I want and Elizabeth half -- tell us about her -- here it's testimony from her tomorrow right.
Was she makes that the initial case which is of course we -- -- we have to get from Cincinnati where this began to Washington and we have out.
We found out that the very very first.
501 -- -- application.
Went to Washington so from the very beginning this would see it in Cincinnati said -- -- Washington we're gonna see numbers like one.
And then -- hundred cases.
All of them being essentially controlled from Washington DC and in this case at least in part.
From the office of the console -- political appointment position one of only two.
In the -- Let's talk about Hilda Solis Elizabeth half -- is some sort of virus agent in Cincinnati.
Who was part of the process of holding back the conservative groups.
Approval process in the 51 -- she -- I believe.
Above her was -- Carter -- right above Carter's moral.
The lowest Lerner was she above Carter -- is our absolute absolutely.
And what are we doing blows line.
Well we intend to have her back as you know the committee -- voted.
That she did wave Barack fifth amendment rights as to the questions we wanted to ask her when she made extensive statements on the subject.
And then refused to answer additional questions I'll that'll be -- next step.
But ultimately it's part of the stumbling in this case -- -- -- -- answered our questions truthfully we could have undoubtedly.
Gotten to the truth about this so much sooner.
So it's very important congressman -- chairman.
So you bring into the stands -- likely raise her hand and won't -- take the fifth again.
Well we have a number of ways to get this information we're we're calling on the IRS to free up the communications related to this.
And to make other people available.
But at the end of the day yes if government employer employee who continue to be government employees are paid not to talk to us something's really wrong as you know service and then.
Wouldn't that wouldn't that be contempt of congress if she -- -- -- -- decided that she waived her fifth amendment rights when she made her statement you bring her back she she's sworn in again gas -- Doesn't she have to testify -- Point.
Well the expectation is she would -- console is well aware that there were that -- certainly testified in and stop justifying.
Contempt is one of the tools we could you.
You -- Elijah Cummings your your co part your cohorts a Democrat on your on your committee who's the ranking Democrat on the committee.
This second this letter we read I'm I'm quoting from the letter quote rather than describing the whole truth your letter appears yet to create a skewed account based on partial.
Incomplete in cherry picked information.
The spreading key evidence that contradicts her political narratives congress chairman.
We you responded to congressman Cummings.
Well you know his job is to stop me at every point he represents the administration -- has done their bidding for a number of years now.
We have his witness.
Russell George the IG tomorrow who's going to answer many of the questions he's been making -- -- and we have these witnesses.
We want witnesses in their testimony to speak for themselves.
Both sides are free to put out excerpts from testimony and interpreted we think we've interpreted fairly and we believe tomorrow's hearing.
Gonna show that people who actually had these applications and who worked up and down the chain.
Make it very clear this was not a Cincinnati decision it wasn't just -- -- -- -- just -- Washington decision.
But it was -- least -- very high levels including the chief counsel's office.
Congressman yesterday we reported -- Democrats.
Are trying to kind of point the finger at Russ George the reaction.
He's bid -- treasury for about fourteen years he's been commended repeatedly for the good work he does.
Many of us would like to see him do his work faster we'd like to -- sooner report.
But no one has ever questioned the day before the accuracy of the kind of work his office does.
And I might note standing next to him tomorrow at that hearing.
Will be the former deputy staff director on the democratic side of this committee who worked hand in hand on these reports.
So any claim that this would be partisan.
I think would be out -- line this is a nonpartisan organization.
And he is a career professional who has been recognized for more than a decade in this position -- -- have about a minute left that's Reggie mentioned treasury IRS reports the treasury.
Are we ever going to see Tim Geithner on the stand.
Well we never make predictions of who we're gonna see on the stand we follow the evidence we'll continue to follow the evidence.
As as it's becoming clear the -- scandal this agency in crisis whether it's their procurement.
If they're spending.
It's a control of documents it's their choice of vendors you know they just chose a vendor who already have lost a 123000.
Out of there -- secure database.
That's the new people to control the IRS -- -- of your personal data.
These are all areas of concern as we follow it.
We've got to follow where where lead and fix it.
I don't have a lot of time what about leadership on your side where they had -- there's some inside DC inside the beltway.
Whispers that maybe leadership is asking you to back off a little are -- Not at all leadership has been extremely supportive we have a complex problem here we have to get to the truth and the I -- often stands behind.
With -- 6103.
This idea that they're protecting these 51 seaports by not disclosing information well in fact these are the victims.
-- that's frustrating but I'm working with chairman camp in the Ways and Means Committee.
To try to get to the truth and make his much of it available for the public general law -- chairman I had to cut you -- we have to -- -- against the and they -- would represent their license thank you very much for your time today.
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