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Very interesting because even though -- writing in the year and early twenty century -- -- debate over.
Faith and reason has been going on for four centuries.
What -- was -- important for you to find common ground between these two books.
Well you know it's a crazy story it's it's a conversation that's played out in my life because the two men.
Who shaped my life my two fathers.
Were coming from on the one hand a Christian perspective.
And another and an atheist -- ran following perspective and yet it in these two homes these two men influenced me greatly.
And so I I look for common ground and then found that there are a lot of other people that have been searching for common ground as well.
And I was I'm assuming you found it because the book you know you're you're hence the book but the idea is that.
You've found that there is that that faith and reason are quite compatible.
Absolutely you know it the on the one hand -- say I'm -- Someone who called herself.
The greatest champion of reason and the greatest enemy of religion.
And so from an atheist perspective having common ground with those who start with a personal god.
Was quite a challenge and yet as I investigated.
-- both of these through these two men who influenced my life.
I found that the ethical conclusions that they come to are really not that far apart it's just sort of the foundations and how they get there.
That is just absolutely.
Throws people for a loop and takes them off the track -- whatsoever actually get some examples here because you know where these two worlds converge and -- have been thinking sex and money because of the two biggies in our world and where we have summer but for the most.
Kind of conflicting issues around.
So -- where you know set a secular and reason and faith actually converge on the issues of sex and money.
We you know I think go where it comes to money one of the the operatives.
The operative kind of words or ideas is capitalism as an economic system.
And down and both of them would look to capitalism.
As is sort of the kind of economic system of choice but for very different reasons so.
John my stepfather who is nine -- follower businessman -- -- for nor.
He would say that capitalism is that the economic system that supports the production.
And the value creation of the individual the most that's why he would.
Up for capitalism as the as the best system.
Dad would say well you know capitalism as opposed to many other economic systems.
Does not presuppose.
That that human beings will act as benevolent.
You know caretakers of others in fact capitalism makes room for people acting selfishly.
And and therefore if we sort of focus on that -- have a system that allows that.
We you know capitalism will allow for success where socialism.
Really depends on the benevolence of someone else unless you have a totalitarian regime coming in.
Two to mandate that system of economics and when recognition of -- because everybody is interested in -- obviously.
No one of those one of those places where maybe I wasn't able to find that that common ground I was looking for you know I ran as -- as it as a writer is a sort of a figure during her time in the fifties and sixties.
She was sound really very outspoken about sex aggrandizing individual and sex being -- the ultimate in intimacy where you find someone else who mirrors what you value in yourself.
She's very individualistic very itself.
Oriented to person and her philosophy shows that whereas you know the the Christians -- sex as.
And -- working -- relationship between a man and a woman that is ultimately reflecting the church's relationship to god.
And so there's there's a deep intimacy that both of them come to -- but of course.
They they see sex in a very different context -- you know socially.
It's more than anything goes thing with I Brandon and -- much more confined to world war limited and focused relationship with the -- speaking.
Yes sounds like there's at least limited responsibility and -- man's version.
About about -- right and it's just personal whatever your heart desires.
Yes and then her her her life actually reflected that you know she sat down -- one point.
With her lover.
And her husband and her lover's wife.
And said how -- we're we're gonna have an affair.
And we're going to be basically having it here on Thursday.
And you know we want to be honest and sort of lets you know about that.
Now you can imagine the conversations that ensued after that or should have ensued.
That went on for many years those -- decade so games in some ways.
I don't think that's indicative of everything.
Or sort of the the logical outcome of all of buying -- philosophy in totality.
But I think it indicates that something is.
At least very.
Out of the ordinary.
I have to release -- she used she is a product of the Russian secular kind of co chair I mean it can't tell -- attribute a lot of hurt thinking -- -- -- to being.
Brought up in a culture that had you -- know.
-- look at religion as a very negative thing.
Well you know I.
Ironically she grew up in Saint Petersburg before she left Russia as a young woman.
And and then that was filled with religious iconography and and and symbols and I think a lot of those symbols really worked into her life so that.
When she describes her ideal man.
In atlas shrugged her thirteen hundred page tome.
There are a lot of similarities between what she looked at as an ideal.
And what Christians look at when they see Jesus Christ.
I don't think she intended that I think she might be a little bit aghast.
At that the suggestion fact I don't know who would think it more blasphemous that I'm trying to find common ground.
I and -- were you know the apostle Paul for example.
And so so there's not everything that is necessarily on the surface but.
I was just compelled to you know I I these two bigger than life men they -- -- in my life and I mean it's fundamental I think two to us as human beings to.
Find out how we should be viewing the world -- -- -- -- -- have a great point because even you couldn't find some common run an area like tracks.
But is there room for reconciliation.
I really think there is you know that one of the when the bears right out of the -- Is engaging you know the the you alluded to a survey The Library of Congress did.
That found that the Bible was the most influential book in people's lives who were surveyed -- readers and have a shrug was number two.
But you know those two groups of people who put.
Those books on their list of most influential in their lives.
Are not hanging out together they're not engaging and I think that's really the first step is engaging and then understanding one another.
Then and only that you understand can you find reconciliation -- common ground.
And then it comes to us to act together and I think we can accomplish more together than we kid.
-- part when we actually take the time to work through that for me it was thrust upon me because I had these two -- speaking in my life yeah.
Down some fantastic it's interesting things I think mark Henderson book is -- -- soul of app list.
And -- christianity in a question for common ground and in our quest for -- -- -- -- thank you so much for being on a spirited debate.
Thank you thank you.
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