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A battle erupting -- DC over keeping America for becoming a full blown welfare state now some Republican lawmakers are fighting to turn back the tide by trying to overhaul the food stamp program.
Number of people getting the food -- soaring more than 80% since President Obama took office.
A recent report showing that more than two and a half million who get -- our young single -- healthy adults who are working.
That's why some here say we need to scrap this cornerstone of welfare and start with something new before we go down the welfare state tube.
Hi everybody I'm David hasn't woken up fours on fox let's go into focus with Steve Forbes rich -- guard Morgan bread and Rick -- John Jan eight.
And Mike Jose -- rich car guard scrap food -- as we know what.
You know we really do because we have to protect it for the people who really needed and that would nobody wants to see undernourished children.
Or older folks eating dog food but if we are gonna pay you know also cover the costs of two and a half million people the number you decided who our healthy.
And are on food stamps -- of working age.
We've got a real unsustainable program here and if you add that to I'm just gonna add disability into this we've also seen disability claims.
Rise by seven million during Obama's -- and I'm not all of those are legitimate either so we have to have reform.
Rick when you have millions of people getting welfare or don't deserve it isn't it time to scrap the system -- try something -- we did it 96 I'm I'm all for always keeping -- good -- welfare to make sure you're not being taken advantage -- but what I worry about.
What we're talking about food stamps is people ignore the statistics 62%.
Of the people on food stamps in this country.
Have at least one person and their fear me working when you add into that.
What we believe was legitimate and I take quick Rich's point that not everybody says -- -- disability should be.
But if you add in those with physical and mental disabilities it goes up to 85%.
You've got to be careful not to be so intense about cutting.
You cut people who -- Help job -- and there are still millions of people taking advantage of -- who don't -- -- live in New York I'd seen it would memorized many people here have.
And every time we try to have welfare reform people attack today in in 1996 President Clinton Democrat remember was attacked for supporting the Republican welfare reform.
I've dated columnist Bob Herbert said it was a G -- against the -- senator Frank Lautenberg the late -- said that poor children would be reduced to and I'm quoting -- -- begging for money begging for food and engaging in prostitution.
Well guess what that -- -- reform works pretty darn well it brought down poverty in this country.
None of that happened and what we have to remember is there's nothing in the constitution about growth and just the same there's nothing in it and -- in federal politicians to fight poverty.
And that's with good reason -- should be a local initiative probably -- pulp fiction for should probably be private charities.
But the broader point here is that we've spent trillions of dollars over the last four decades fighting the war on poverty yet it still exists today.
In major numbers that's the surest signal yet the federal government is until -- equal to what it presumed to beat.
And Morgan one of the incredible things about the welfare reform in 1996 was that it did bring down -- -- pretty like it's never been brought we've had dips in -- -- before.
But we've never had a sustained drop in poverty until the 1996 -- -- we haven't had a sustained drop like that since well for began in 1935.
Let's and I am wide open entry form in food stamps and actually just to be fair the voted down house bill actually had -- -- billion dollars worth of spending cuts.
In it I think we're putting the cart before the course -- -- that we have nearly twelve million Americans still unemployed and millions more that are under in play.
And those people do need access to food when you actually break down the numbers on -- -- that's about four dollars and 44 cents today per person who's actually.
Getting food stamps it's less than -- value of McDonald's -- -- but Steve and the fact is and I know we have anecdotal evidence but there's also some statistical evidence stood to back up the fact a lot of people get it.
Don't deserve I was just at a store the other day at Duane Reade drugstore where people were buying Sachs buying a -- potato chips and chewing gum.
Where there EDT car.
Well David it just underscores that this whole thing when we get reform -- not gonna get it now you gonna have to have a better economy like we had in the mid 1990s better environment for this kind of reform.
But this kind of -- ultimately should be -- -- closed and folded.
And other welfare programs like for -- seniors supplemental security income programs and things like that let people make their own choices.
Instead of having these things just go will grow willing -- on the wrong.
So you're gonna need it means need reform -- fortune this -- not gonna provide it but this debate can be useful or providing a foundation to get it in 26.
All right -- zany and in fact the Republicans laid the ground work for the nine 96 reforms over years before trying to come up with some specific like for example and entitlements in cash.
Have a five year term limit on benefits require mothers to prepare for and search for work or have their cash benefit reduced.
Or eliminated so there are a lot of things that can be prepared now that may be when there's somebody in the White House well more amenable welfare reform we could do well I think we see the results of what happened in the ninety's and the policies you talking about David.
-- with the labor participation rate which was around 66%.
That's what you'd normally see in a recovery.
Now the labor participation rate is only 63%.
Which I normally what you see in a recession.
But rich you know so often we hear excuses for this explosion and well for that we've seen the food stamps.
Growing 80% eighty billion dollars a year.
They say it's because of the severity of the recession is -- the severity of the recession that's led to this huge expansion.
Or is -- a president who believes in these welfare policy.
Well it's both and they create an unholy alliance and this is why we're stuck at 2% growth and seven million new people on disability and two and a half million -- people.
It taking food -- -- possibly should not be there.
Look if we had 4% growth was who what where we shouldn't be having.
Following a recession we would have 300 billion dollars a year more of incremental activity.
And this would create this -- lift the labor participation from 63 to 67%.
I really think you have to start with -- growth but this president's not pro growth there.
-- -- and break there is a dependency truck even FDR who started welfare in this country as we know what warned about a dependency -- too many people getting welfare is not a good thing right.
Too many people is not a good thing -- -- I'll even go you one better day and I I will do something -- rarely see I agree with part of what you said a moment ago.
Were you pointed out that people should not be using their there's snap benefits to go to the drugstore.
And I can't -- the -- with the other other you know food stamps should be for necessity and and nourishment so I'm good with you there.
Let's just not get too carried away here -- you'll end up hurting -- I know but sometimes Morgan and this is this so hard fact of life sometimes people get hurt when their learning to get back in their -- sometimes you only get back on your feet when your fortune that's hard but true.
It's hard but it's -- and yes that like I said there is group reform here.
But -- -- larger issue and not the fact that.
People that aren't -- they can't even get access to vegetables and fruits and healthy foods you -- talk about candy they're buying -- because they can't afford to -- that bag of lettuce with four dollars and hole.
Again I don't know -- yeah NIC.
Steve I got Italian parents about a year why not when I didn't have enough work and I was I had these soybeans for about 87 cents a day.
I turned out to be pretty healthy I -- soybeans I create some fruits and vegetables.
That was it if you want to sustain yourself in this country -- your -- -- you can do.
Absolutely and one of the things I think that is really led to this assault on food stamps David.
Is that the administration is discourage states from about trying to find people who shouldn't be getting these benefits they want more they just want the numbers and so what's creating this backlash right myself.
Ed is there this sort of vicious circle that rich was talking about where the more people you have on welfare.
The more people fallen and that dependency trapped well if you want an example of that only have to do is look at -- Europe David I mean this is the trap they fell into over many decades.
Unfortunately though I think one of the problems the Republicans had here was that they lost the moral authority in this movement.
Because they increase the amount of subsidies in the same legislation that they gave to wealthy farmers things like.
Crop insurance to rice -- -- -- -- and that that really.
Took a lot away from I think that's something -- we all agree that mortgage -- agree with that is -- I.
Here and we you know we put a lot of focus on President Obama from the ballooning a food stamps for the kids and hatteras food stamps started leaning in 2200.
George Bush we -- from 2001 -- -- -- -- agree -- not only 3%.
-- say let's agree everybody's to blame but John -- everybody could get together for reform as they did in 1996 reverend was a Republican bill.
And a democratic president's side -- fun.
They certainly -- the problem is that neither party understands how economies grow and because neither parties understand you're not gonna get the growth that would get people off of food stamps.
But I mean getting back to Rick's point in this this frontal think if you localize it benefits or poverty benefits it's a lot harder for people to -- candy when that.
The problem is that the benefits are being handed out from Washington is it any wonder that she can walk you know -- you really don't see this happen.
OK we got -- -- -- candy folks we've run out of time thank you very.
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