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Thanks that's brilliant Michael -- now senior fellow and director of research for the foreign policy programs of the Brookings Institution which describes itself as a nonprofit.
Public policy organization -- but I'm trying to figure out where we are with this now it's clearly bigger than it snowed.
-- -- well yes it is although it's a confusing situation because.
On the one hand we would very much welcome -- doing us a favor here but Russia clearly views it as a favor and maybe not even.
The kind you would expect each other to honour because United States and Russia still have Cold War habits when it comes to.
Trying to get people on the other side too.
-- -- secrets in other words I think there are.
Russians trying to recruit Americans routinely around the world and most of those Americans thankfully say no.
To those Russian efforts but we know the Russian efforts are ongoing.
And snow and sort of -- -- case that fell into their lap.
And we know they're trying to do this and frankly I'm not sure that we don't do it ourselves in reverse so.
It's a bit of a tall order I agree with the administration it's worth making the ask.
But -- -- refuses as they're doing now.
I'm not sure that we should be too surprised at least that's that's where I am right now -- trying to understand this myself it give you forgive you find any any amount of leverage that that our side might have in this matter.
Well you know do you want to raise this to the level of getting Russia apply tighter sanctions on Iran where they have.
To the level of trying to apply greater pressure on president Assad of Syria which they have not.
I mean these are the kinds of issues where we've had some success or some failure with Russia.
The -- rise to that level.
I don't know you know historically the two sides even while they were they are having Cold War summits and even after the Cold War ended.
We have not typically traded spies in this same way we've we kicked each other spies out of our capitals when we knew who they were.
You know and get these retaliatory.
Tit for attack kinds of expulsions.
But -- the game of trying to recruit informants from each other.
-- each other's country continues to go on.
And so I'm just not sure it's gonna come as such a huge obvious.
Situation for Russia to feel like it has to help us out here.
Again it's -- to ask and I wish Russia would.
But I'm going to be a little bit surprised if they come through.
There there's not much discussion -- of the Chinese they were in the mix at one point in there were questions about whether.
He might have been working with -- or for them to those questions remain -- -- that buttoned up.
Well the way I would put it is I think mr.
Snowden lost his credibility as sort of today.
A vigilante for justice and for open debate when he went over to China and told them some of what.
We have been doing the Chinese listen to a lot of our communications they steal a lot of our intellectual property.
Over the telephones and over the computer.
And we obviously -- -- watch what they're doing in reply we don't steal their secrets the way.
They steal ours but we do conduct espionage I'm sure by computer and and -- gave away some of that information in a situation where.
The Chinese have -- thing we're committing much greater infractions than we were so I've lost my ability to have even.
Of a grudging respect for any contribution he's making to the debate.
Even though many do acknowledge that the debate.
Pieces of the debater useful.
The way Snowdon has stifled secrets has been I think to indiscriminate.
And careless and that's what his -- -- -- and in China approved.
Beyond that I don't think that think the Chinese are hugely relieved not to be in the same place that Russia is now.
-- they have to make this very difficult decision and that's the main that's the main sentiment that I'm sure -- felt invasion.
But you're right about that Michael and -- from Brookings is nice to see -- as always thanks very much.
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