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Welcome back their microphones a professor Richard Dawkins -- -- -- an appetite for wonder -- probably the world's leading.
-- the best known atheist to win the most successful writers on the subject.
Any evolutionary biologist.
Written books like the selfish gene and the god delusion which of course put you on the map as a well known atheist.
But here you've written an appetite for wonder which is the first of two right that's unusual and one would think -- -- not similarly -- about yourself Caribbean -- and of itself Thompson what made you decide to do -- Publishers but but there's a money in a -- I think people are naturally curious as you've made such a name for yourself.
In both the religious community in the religious community people must wonder how you got to this point east do you talk in this book you -- born in Kenya grew up.
In a fairly well off family had servants.
Well I mean -- do you know not a lot of drama in the early part of your life.
Yes you didn't have to be very well off to have settlers and in Africa was kind of -- Red -- and normal cause they were not paid that much less but you're practicing Christian -- went to.
Early your family what.
No my family -- -- I went to Christian schools I went to violent advocates when did you pray.
Yes and again and it went through that the rig the -- the rigmarole of believe they -- -- of things if I was child I mean that that's normal in children that.
-- nearly all children do to update when they go to school and and that's a fortunate enough not to go to the religious -- what happened it was or 1973.
When things change what in 1973 was when I first began rushing the selfish gene right so I was in -- -- she's had.
But when what when did your religious I was a religious conversion is actually the opposite of -- national -- version -- it's -- has -- about sixty.
And you would -- -- a challenge professor -- and the earned features well now I wouldn't say that's I mean.
With a couple of friends I used to refuse to kneel down in chapel replay I don't know what I'm managing rebellion.
They didn't Kelly Johnson and they were very nice about it that's just typical -- to be to be very tolerant could you walk us a little bit those who have you got from make praying kneeling.
Child to somebody who.
Really kind of push that -- at the -- restored to at the age of sixteen.
Tests I suppose it was -- -- That might last vestige of religious faith was due to my being so impressed with the -- world and how complicated political will it is -- -- Elegant and how apparently designed to think things so -- had to be a design.
And when I finally understood.
And I was so bowled over by the elegance of the solution idea.
-- -- I went the other way what was zero point we became more militant about it yes -- -- about seventeen nuts and I used refused to kneel down in chapel.
And was there pressure put on you to -- -- -- the teachers were kind of accept -- -- they were very good about it yes was there -- report your life for there's pressure rather than from the general public -- -- balances that unit really that you've -- you have brick bats are coming -- way from the public itself well -- like to hear that there's no god -- that there's a mechanism yet they don't like to hear that Adam.
I guess if you -- that -- occasionally read my hate -- -- on YouTube and I re tweet mind that -- ideas finance under yes.
If -- intellectual curiosity.
It says it took full bloom at Oxford.
How did you change in the during that part of your life well.
I think it was when I sort of stopped and had we gave up the idea that the that the way you learn is by.
Took it by learning textbooks and lists of facts which is the way you know the school correct -- you know memorize and then -- University is different agenda and I I woke up to that is a secondary -- -- When I realize that but you never steals -- becoming a thinker.
Was it your intention to.
Really did become known as the atheists not -- that was not what you're looking at today and that that was this just an accident happier or otherwise that that yes.
I would say setting.
Because my subject of the evolutionary biology.
Is kind of in the Frontline trench.
With respect to fundamentalist religion anyway I suppose that -- forced me to.
Become pretty innocent did you have an idea how controversial it was when you started -- things like this over she's more controversial and the god delusion and particularly small contribution it more controversial here.
Here in America yes even though there's an official state church in in -- well have saved a -- -- paradox for Tibet yes I think I think it may be the cause of the official state church.
I know we guys humility and away from that I noticed him right here in the paradise we came to get away from that nick you've got these -- -- who think we're Christian nation exactly you know today in the paradise and in your country where you are now and the Scandinavian countries officials haven't established religion doesn't come at least religious countries in the world so yeah -- because religion becomes boring and it it it if it's an established religions have becomes.
-- whereas here it's the opposite of tell tell me about the bullying in in your book you discuss the bullying that took -- I think -- probably many schools benefit.
-- and still have bullying.
And what shocks me now is the realizations that young age.
Although I I sort of bullying and I didn't do it but I saw it and I didn't -- -- No I wouldn't say I was voted no and nor did -- -- but I saw it happening.
And and didn't some.
Didn't have the empathy.
Apparently and I think it's -- pretty -- -- not have the empathy to to intervene.
I was fascinated that you also talked about it -- -- kind of -- to meet you look at a mascot that kind of groomed you a little bit I mean you talked about that in the book -- -- -- -- -- little uptight emotionally it certainly does that.
-- was just a minor thing that's happened -- hundreds and listening -- them to very a very short kind of 152 in this incident yeah.
Which -- -- shaping it anyway or did you know I don't think so and he committed suicide to a cup this is probably up Metafile aren't again but he was yeah yeah yeah.
And -- I suppose it it meant a lot to us that he killed himself.
-- -- assimilation.
Commit in what way what -- you react or respond to.
Was pretty upsetting I mean you know he was he was part of the -- he was he was part of the school week we were -- by him every day.
Suddenly he wasn't and we were told by the head most of that he gassed himself.
And it was a solemn.
Richard -- -- guests an appetite for wonder which is a great title the making of a scientist.
And picture view you don't look that different today than doing whatever the and and and we got illusions selfish -- to -- -- very very successful.
A bestselling books.
I thought your -- a daily -- was interesting and and we then the issue of whether or not.
And Jon Stewart -- that's a very good thoughtful questions.
We are whether or not the universe which ultimately will flame out.
Right one way the other when a -- to be because of we do it to ourselves because of religious wars or because of science.
Or is it just going to be that the nature eventually well.
I'll take that OK -- I'll -- the -- will will will will let myself.
But I got a few billion years yet know -- -- -- and -- agreement and is against you know that's -- guys can but but.
This little -- out but prior to that what are the risks I mean we got religious wars going on right now yes and could that be a more likely.
Outcome for our planet then the great majority of species that have ever existed have gone extinct.
And it would be.
But -- have to be unusually lucky in order not to.
And it's great that we could I mean there are things going for us we we have we would might have the technology to stop -- going extinct.
The way the dinosaurs did on the other hand you might have the technology to drive us so sixty why do you think.
People get so wrapped up emotionally in religion to the point where it really into literally leads to wars.
Stay curious I I don't really understand it to -- is that it's part of their personal identities that they feel it's -- of them.
And so few insults from his religion -- as -- you.
To tell them they -- I say we're not a Christian country -- think you're insulting the United States and one that's very -- that's the history of this this country I mean they hit that this country was.
Was was a mean.
It's just under the declaration of independence it was founded in secularism and that's what write what you say are far far fathers who were known as -- maybe if if there was a branch of christianity that maybe edit right that if there is a -- He's not keeping or -- or it.
Is not keeping score that's kind of like hands up but I -- of the world -- you know go enjoy your zone that's right well as the entry.
It's pretty clear that that.
And Jefferson Madison and so on would have been bases they've been alive today Jefferson go to Bible that the -- I -- guess initiatives and we can imagine a politician doing that and I can't.
The -- to the attitude and other countries don't look at Kenya where we just had that where you were born where that we just had this term terrible tragedy.
Whether it's religious play in and it's we're not gonna get we want we wanna get them on what we want to save the non Muslim or we we wanna get the non Muslims I'm sorry let when he -- -- non Muslim that's right right there in your compound that's right.
It's astonishing that people like David Cameron -- prime minister.
It's kind say this is nothing to do with with with with religion and get -- based specifically saved the Muslims.
And shot the non Muslims nothing to do with religion I don't know nothing to do with religion right so they -- you think well we know.
We are likely perhaps a destroyer selves even psychologically blend of developing nuclear bombs and maybe we don't use it to fight each other because of religions.
They were fighting over land but when waited or we -- the planet today I feel that rather than -- those changes and particularly if some technology to make bombs all the virus bombs or something falls into the hands of people actually want to -- -- -- it.
Richard Dawkins or just -- -- for an appetite for wonders is his Lewis his latest book.
The other question elected -- -- -- is what happens when you're Diana knew the time is running short to even get into it.
But but really and I and there are specific cancers -- you can as a scientist could say well you're either become ashes -- -- throwing in the ocean -- They -- in the granite but -- -- a more spiritual answer to that.
I -- it's me it seems to me that everything that we've that we we we are consciousness -- feelings -- subjectivity.
He spun up enough brains enough brains don't survive death.
-- says seems to me to be clearly wishful thinking what do you think happens when you hear these stories of life -- life and people with -- go into the tunnel with a -- And meeting there of meeting their re I loved ones from earth and well -- think -- -- -- through the -- and that that's.
Known to be oxygen starvation.
-- has some meeting loved ones we we you you may need to love bugs and emerald green -- when you're asleep I think you'll have to -- -- to go again like ninety minutes and have a -- these books that -- let people is that they -- -- -- -- I'm sure they sell very well.
We don't as -- yours.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- So now you've done an appetite for wonders so what do you do in the next.
And part -- trilogy I guess in dual G is earlier this forum -- I've I've got term mean.
35 as it was when the fessed up arguments -- suffer through my life so far.
-- and I guess -- Star and tease us about something this might be -- -- -- -- -- -- I don't know I don't -- most of my books -- -- -- twelve -- amended -- any one -- -- comes into.
Solid and it'll be about -- them to be about -- -- it'll be about.
-- -- Interesting people outside met people like Douglas Adams.
Some friends of mine inspectors -- against guess yeah what surprised you most -- we're getting a little -- but just limited to what surprised you most -- become a very famous.
Although that wasn't as you just -- -- what you intended to be known hands there's an evolutionary biologist but what surprised you most about the reaction.
To you work.
I think he went to -- Christine is is somewhat misunderstood by people haven't really read it but let's assume from the from the title.
That it means what that I that we also official we ought to be selfish and either which is true.
What is it that you want people -- take from that.
-- -- selfish meaning that mattress selection favors those genes that look after themselves through through long geological history much of like what Darwin talked about you weren't going to news that would -- but yeah I guess I think dollar in order wolf vital to fifteen basis yes it.
So it led the way to interpret the behavior but individual goodness.
Is as preserving its own genes has jeans a selfish but they often make altruistic individuals -- you're surprised by the reaction to the selfish gene would he be good people don't get me on the title.
But what about the reaction to you as a prominent internationally known if it.
And the reaction to that list of -- blown you away well I.
Reduction do you expect that to be controversial because that's where as we just said -- religion is so much a part of people's identity in this field.
Richard Dawkins a book in the latest one and preceding the -- we have started to talk about an appetite for wonder in the make -- a -- think it's a very much of -- once again appreciate much.
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