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Welcome to another edition of special report on line if you have been here before welcome aboard this place you can comment.
Ask questions to the panel much more relaxed lot of fun and we'll try to answers management can.
-- so you can vote in some polls -- show here.
And we'll -- you some answers of course we're back with the panel Joseph on the line and Charles we might as well.
Finish with obamacare before -- topics and who knows them and have never -- topics.
Had some more sound to play during the panel -- wanted to use at that time effectively.
Here is -- Marsha Blackburn.
Secretary civilians about this whole.
If you have a plan can keep.
Can you give me a ballpark -- what you have spent on this website that does not work.
That individuals cannot get to.
What is your cost estimate to so far congresswoman.
We have spent.
About a 118.
Million dollars on the web site itself and about 56 million dollars has been.
Expended on other IT to support the web.
Okay that's a different -- about a 170 plus million on health -- dot gov we have the one about.
OK now let's take a listen to the one I won't -- -- you here.
What do you say to mark in early Sunday in my district who had a plan that -- like did it was affordable.
But it is being terminated and now they do not have health insurance.
Insurance companies cancel individual policies year in and year out there one year contract with.
Individuals they are not.
Lifetime -- let me not an employer plan.
You are let me make my let -- now not it's not they wanted it novel remind you.
Some people like to drive a Ford not a Ferrari and some people like to drink out of a red Solo Cup not the crystal stamp.
There is you know you say it's just 5% and that is what the White House has been saying.
-- but you have you know fourteen.
To sixteen million people in the independent.
At least two million have received cancellation notices we've been told.
And in there you have some people who may have sick kids are sick family members who are now in the process of scrambling to find insurance.
And they're dealing with a web site that's non operational.
And a system that's not given an insurance.
And they're scared out of their courts about this and we've received emails we're gonna go talk to some.
You know yeah they're just 5% but -- people.
-- -- without a doubt -- -- no no question but the thing is the plans don't get canceled.
For some time we're not is not as if they're going to be canceled tomorrow and they are the -- they have had a plan all of a sudden they're without coverage and with -- sick child.
I think you have to lack -- heart to just say -- you know.
Tell whether that's just not what I'm saying it.
What I'm saying to -- is the overarching goal and I think the real news here is welcome.
Good administration has put in place in the congress has voted.
For this plan that covers this seeks to expand insurance coverage to tens of millions of people who currently are uninsured.
And improves on a system in which actually health care companies health insurance companies.
We're denying coverage to people with conditions kicking people off the plants once they got sick and all the rest you just heard from secretaries to do this and saying.
These are won your plans that these folks are talking about.
They're not lifetime plans to these people.
Were at the mercy of -- oftentimes is very unregulated insurance market that was not.
About helping people -- the administration probably should've said that.
The revelations said if you're on the individual market you have one of these when your plans like that plan.
Yeah you know what you're probably not to be able to keep because we're gonna change -- the directive for a change that the bar by which insurance companies have to go over.
Well I thought they said that I thought I think the confusion here is about the grandfather clause.
Because on the grandfather clause would make me think doesn't matter what happens you get to keep your plant in fact.
Michigan -- right -- they get -- if it's your birthday present he says.
Actually -- insurance that you currently have would be grandfathered.
-- and so you could keep it.
Sell you could decide not to get in this exchange the better plan I could actually keep my acme insurance that's what just say high deductible catastrophic plan.
Right that's not what he said today are finally -- February 20 and that's what it's that's what he said then and again I think that he should have been clear that he would include.
Clear yet I mean this Whisenhunt -- -- not being clear.
He was saying something that was flat out not true.
Let me get this straight he said that if you're grandfathered -- you get the can really plan.
Yes you OK I could keep my acme insurance just a high deductible catastrophic plan or I would not be required to get the better one.
Today he said.
But the law passed and we decided you know what you gotta get better OK maybe I misunderstand or as my understanding is you can still be grandfathered in if if the insurance company doesn't decide that the government has made some it's changed and therefore the government has the right to not intervene and establish those higher mandates -- car.
And what they did to him allow -- think they they pulled a fast -- they wanted to minimize the number of times.
They could be -- So what they did is they said if after the day of the law passed.
There's been any change of thought comment changed in your -- If there was an increase in the co pay a five dollars and sixteen cents.
Then you lose all right to to keep your plan for -- it was designed to cut throat ten million people.
They knew this and never explained what the president says period.
He means they're no explanations there are no stimulation is there are no exceptions -- that is an outright -- But what offends me apart from the fact that they lie because they -- -- Is that's the utter arrogance of these liberals who decide by writing rules in Washington.
That we decide that a plan that doesn't include maternity care.
For a couple in their sixties.
Is therefore inadequate sub standard and you have to be cured of your illusion that you don't need it.
And you have to be required to subsidize that and pay for it.
It is absolute.
Paternalism of the worst sort.
The idea is you are too stupid to understand your -- in fact people have chosen a plan.
They like the plant there and any views on every network.
People who said I like my client I chose my plan I wanted and now I have lost that yes is not gonna -- -- today they're gonna lose on January the first also.
I can fire and Kish Christian here's tenacious one obamacare was created to cover the 15% of Americans that were uninsured.
Why do you think that the 5% of Americans are unimportant.
-- -- -- they were unimportant.
I guess they're just interpreting that when you say it's just 5%.
Then that's what we hear from the White House to not put them.
Over one more quick thing OK so.
The 5% thing which I think is actually a very large number I mean again if they passed a law saying.
You know every Asian American in this country.
Good with asterisk times how dare you that the only millions of people that is but somehow -- it affects people buying insurance it's if it becomes it's insignificant number I don't quite buy.
But it's not just the 5%.
The whole point of the business -- the whole point of obamacare.
-- I can say because -- on the web to screw everybody who likes their health care plan we are seeing this rolling out.
You know in the business community where they're all changing already ha -- Thousands of companies are changing their insurance policies.
Because of obamacare.
Because they never wanna pay the Cadillac tax they want to they have to get we're gonna have to provide health care plans are compliant with these new standards and so when he went around.
Country saying if you get your and it wasn't just you know purity and he said when he spoke of AARP he made it sound like he would be fighting in the trenches to keep.
People from losing their individual health care plan he's an amazing guarantee I have made -- -- -- guarantee I promised to keep.
But -- will not lose your plans he was making it sound it wasn't just being unclear he was being clearly dishonest that people go to.
Even if -- no one was gonna lose their plans when the entire point -- the thing.
If -- make people lose their plans to get better health insurance and to charge people more money for things they don't need to pay for the people who they're putting on the -- that's why.
You know Charles and I are gonna hit -- the -- maternity coverage if we don't want him a pat on the -- -- Arnold on the free market on the individual market.
We know that we're never gonna need that and they need the money from us paying for it to pay for all these people to bringing on the role.
It's not just a 5% that he lied to what's the entire country that -- Obama -- that change everyone's -- His plans -- mark from Memphis read my company's insurance plan is much worse this year than last year and we've already been told that the coverage will be.
-- server and more expensive.
Next year it is fair to point out that while we focus on.
Not only the individual market of the 5% and the folks who don't have coverage currently that people who have coverage through companies will be affected to some companies -- changing.
You know how they're paying for what they're doing with it.
Others are choosing to drop it because it's easier to put people -- exchanges and pay the penalty than it is for them to.
-- cheaper for them to do that and then you have you know still other companies that you know haven't made the decision small business groups that.
An insurance company say.
Just like the individual markets -- drop in this country.
When you're not saying here though that you think.
Oh everything is just fine with the way insurance is sold in America today and that's okay that we have no mole tens of millions of people who lack coverage.
And so many people who had an adequate coverage and so many people who were bankrupted.
I don't think anybody would say that.
I think that we have problems with the rollout of obamacare.
But the big point and I must say to the email that we got.
What we've seen since obamacare has been passed is a slowdown in the rate of growth.
-- health care costs to -- corporations in this country.
But the larger point -- this is the point that I think we should be arguing about -- opposed to lines whatever is being put into some program.
I think we have to argue about do you believe that it's as the changes.
And I think they're necessary changes are made to help the way health -- is sold in provided in this country.
As these changes take place in some people feel like they got -- -- moved around is that unfair or is it part of a larger.
Cooperative effort by the United States of America.
To come into line with what we've seen from other western countries that provide national health -- all their people here -- -- -- -- want them in there is also a disproportionate.
Balance of Medicaid sign ups that -- privacy for sure it's right in Washington State for example of the insurers.
The people who have been rolled.
Reportedly in Washington State 84% of them are Medicaid well that's not exactly the balance that.
The Obama administration is looking for because that falls to everybody to pay for that.
-- And not you know the individuals searching the marketplace to -- now.
Those people were eligible anyway -- -- -- -- -- -- any time all right I'm really reorder my favorite quotes.
It's from a guy who also wanted to -- -- injustices in this society.
In one swelled who.
And he says.
If you want to make an omelet you have to break things not calling you a Communist hysteria.
Be -- you can vote in the online -- didn't just.
Joseph Stalin dance.
I'm not accusing -- being astonished.
Maybe fellow traveler who they never okay is this the idea and this is the -- -- left and right.
I agree with you the fact that you have a lot of Americans without insurance is something that I think a decent society ought to withdraw us.
But on the right.
If you're conservative you would say this is a discrete problem.
Let's try to attack it.
Maybe we raise -- tax.
Well and be open about it maybe you making sure insurance available over state -- exactly so you lower the price or for example you attack.
The biggest cost and makes American.
Which is the insane.
Tort system and -- the malpractice system.
Had no other country in the west has and that drains almost and there have been a lot of studies on this.
Of these tests -- the referrals a hostile nations.
As the procedures that we do they're only done to protect against losses imagine how many hundreds of billions you would say.
If you are able to attack that there's not a word about that in -- love for one reason.
Did the Democrats did not want to offend the trial lawyers so what I'm saying -- -- -- -- attacked a discrete problem.
Where you and I could have agreed worked out a plan to do it what instead the liberals have done because their ambitions are far larger than us.
-- to change the entire system.
To kick people off the planet arbitrarily -- was sixty year old men living alone he has to have maternity care use here is over payment.
To subsidize other people in this stealthy way so -- -- the cost.
That's what's wrong with this.
Let me just say first -- -- that I'm in the spirit of great charity towards Charles on this on my -- because I'm all about selling -- -- You getting your -- -- that management.
Exactly that I -- Another round -- pro hormone they got it -- yeah.
But I think -- -- -- the book again I have to.
He has a -- -- I -- it wasn't -- you -- things in matters of great things that matter but I must say that you could you know critic in chief.
You are -- close to the -- -- propagandist.
-- seems to mean that analysis yet because the fact is that when you look.
At this problem just what.
-- -- -- It's not that crazy liberals on the comings and came up with this it was -- Heritage Foundation -- -- -- hey guess what only it was a Republican governor in Massachusetts I don't know.
How could it leave this hurts my Republican Hart says Charles come line.
Is is the duration you know yes yes my property and his friends can -- can -- take the balance of your time.
You guys are hanging on to -- 1992.
Heritage report felt like to a life raft.
I think you've gotten is that true number what it is true but -- breaking -- -- -- implication is that I was only about one idea.
That somehow heritage and I've never heard you say this.
Is unfailingly infallible like the -- know what I'm saying they tried.
We'll try to work with the Republican idea this is a Republican allies that are how to deal there aren't a problem the Irish are -- -- -- of regulations -- what we discovered today.
With the cancellation of the policies.
Is that there is not only employer mandate.
There is -- only individual -- there is a coverage mandates a minimum standards the so called.
In which the government our budget experts in DC.
Dictate to the whole country what has to be in their plan even if you don't want it and they assume that you're too stupid to understand what you need.
That's what's wrong with a liberal re making no mistakes of the economy.
I mean is the Republican idea you know the the -- -- -- this one is 700 pages the federal or regulations or 20000 plus pages currently there obviously -- seen.
What all of those regulations and the impact of them are now I wanna ask you something John Mike Harmon insurance company demonization is part of the plan.
Towards single Payer.
The goal is to make sure the 50% of the voters are dependent on the federal government says Jack hall.
So the Democrats can control all three branches of government in perpetuity.
Others people saying this is all up.
There's a purpose of this all falling apart because then it goes to single Payer.
It's easy for.
A lot of people to jump.
Is that a jump worth making.
-- to think about that this is I mean she listened to that.
Committee hearing there are a lot of Democrats said the problem with this -- it doesn't go far enough.
Well that was Barack Obama's.
Affordable Care Act because he thought it would be good weigh station on the way to single Payer I think Harry Reid has said something along those lines.
Not long said that I think obamacare was always supposed to -- just not this quickly.
And so I think 888 modicum of paranoia about that it is warranted.
At the same time I don't know that.
That Obama has got his eyes on that prize right now I think he would just be happy to get a web -- to work.
And comment to make this thing seen.
This thing seemed like it was a modest success.
And that I think they would take is a big victory right now and lived to fight for single Payer another day.
-- Yeah I think I think that that's exactly right -- -- I think the long term strategy to respond to the email though for -- lots of Democrats is that single Payer is the way that the country should go I don't think there's any.
Waved around that is it is a desire for lots of Democrats in fact I'm always curious when you see the high numbers in terms of what's in -- house.
-- going a direction we're -- most most of the history of obamacare most Republicans say it.
They oppose it and when you get into the numbers you -- about quarter and say oh I oppose it that I think we should have single Payer.
And -- I -- they want more.
From health care perspective substance and quality of health care.
Is there a sense that.
Let's just go down that road let's just say this whole thing falls park let's just say Democrats there's no way to get through Republican House let's say they control -- Democrat in the house.
And let's say they get it through.
Single Payer how do you think that that would affect the quality of US health care.
What I would clearly go down there's a reason that Canadians lineup and northern US hospitals because the wait for a hip replacement or whatever you Q.
You know you get a line you can wait you can die waiting for a lot of -- -- -- the Canadian system is not the worst.
But we happen to have the best health care system the most sophisticated.
In the world and the most expensive but we ought to be attacking the place where it gets expensive.
And that is insane tort reform in the car -- get off that there was a study in Massachusetts that looked at with the referrals and procedure capitalizations.
Spoke to doctors asked them to self.
And they found that one quarter.
-- follow those were done simply to prevent.
-- losses that that would mean 602.
Billion dollars a year and why there's not a word of it in the eyes of the bill so you would start there.
But I do think that if you had to choose between Obama care.
And -- an outside observers.
I'll give you two systems Obama can't or a single Payer.
You would choose the latter because -- -- least it's rational.
At least you don't have the middleman at least you're not gonna have endless trillions of regulations.
You're not gonna have interactions and as a result of Obama care for example.
We're getting it doctors who retire early -- and -- you know all these people who've now been successfully enters into the exchanges.
The overwhelming majority -- in Medicaid.
You would not whip who wish that on your worst enemy.
If some thing.
But it is very difficult a lot of doctors aren't in it and I -- -- because they -- assets on the dollar and -- things and that's gonna happen to Medicare as well.
So what we're doing is we are degrading the level of the practice of medicine.
And I have both classmates who went to medical school with me and they say -- did you know to get out of the medicine for -- Well I -- and I -- right.
But they have no autonomy they're getting now that I have sixty year old -- colleagues.
Who now work twice as hard twice as many hours as when they were in their thirties and are making less -- -- Barely pay their nurses.
But positive to.
Her appointment -- -- -- on that.
When you -- but there's plan and those mandating all that being conservative idea Obama goes to Massachusetts.
This idea that and -- get a good piece on tonight but this idea that is sort of taken for granted by a lot of people mainstream media that Massachusetts is this on a -- Success -- that everyone loves and it's going great.
Health care costs since that Obama -- -- Romney care was put into effect.
Have gone from point someone like -- 8% to 40% -- destined to go to.
Fifty cents out of every dollar the Massachusetts government spends and they haven't been the cost curve down they're having me.
Some doctor shortage and they have the highest insurance premiums of any state in the country.
-- -- it's an idea that somehow -- more modeling on Massachusetts went the other things that this thing was supposed to fix.
Was you know bending the cost curve in and reducing health care payment.
Massachusetts isn't the model.
-- that for me just say it's so popular in Massachusetts you wouldn't believe.
If you look at the polls -- people of Massachusetts -- secondly I've never heard a story about any business -- Massachusetts.
Because of health care cost just not happening.
So I mean they certainly are realities on the ground doctors even when Charles talks about doctors and I might.
Life's just from the daughter of doctor and the sister of -- -- -- I hear all this stuff all the time.
But you stop and think about it there's no shortage of -- -- doctors in this country they don't they complained bitterly about -- he said ten cents on the dollar.
But guess what there's no shortage of it so Charles has response to me in this case is -- but it's been decreasing look that the quality of medical care in the country.
Well here's my point to you Charles you know what you were so concerned about the rich and the elite I wonder -- Eight could be it could be that your unconcerned about people who get no treatment -- that in the emergency rooms and -- the emergency rooms as the source for primary -- that's not a good -- Why weren't -- -- members -- and I saw exactly what happened.
And in fact it turns out you are a -- on this amount of.
It's -- their comrades to the.
You wanna make omelets he -- you prayer line and tell the bosses have to pay any -- -- system.
And they don't get access there's so few doctors who will do it.
Stay -- the Canadians have to wait forever to get him treatment.
And that's why they show up in the second what is the one state where there's been a huge influx of doctors.
Taxes why tort reform.
People will go there you know Ben Carson who was a neurosurgeon.
I talked to him way back when when he and I were on the -- bioethics commission.
He said to me to open an office -- -- in general surgeon you open an office in Philly.
-- initial cost burden for malpractice.
200000 dollars a year before you turn on the lights in your office and you paid for -- secretary.
And there are -- are ways we can attack it.
But the Democrats in the liberals will not do it because the trial lawyers are contributors.
To the Democratic Party.
I say you start with a flaws in the system are.
You try to improve that you use the money to subsidize -- -- I believe in subsidizing health care for the poor and the Medicaid is a terrible option so.
For I guess the question is you know the president says he wants to pixel things -- that but in essence you can't fix some of the things if you're gonna use the money else.
For example is Charles mentions the guy who has to get the maternity campers and neonatal coverage in his plan even though he's 58 and we had a guy on.
-- -- -- That that had that in his bronze plan and his premium went up his deductible is higher than it used to be.
But you -- -- neonatal care.
You can't solve that by saying he can't happen because you need his extra money.
-- pay for the other people who you are subsidized.
I guess -- the president says he's he wants to fix it.
It's only to a point.
You know I mean I mean -- there's people that are not going to be happy with this deal yes.
Either it's either being winners and losers sees that there would just be winners except for people who make over 250000 I don't know I mean I.
I don't I don't got access I mean there was not a piece on this sales this year premiums -- 2500 dollars.
He said we're gonna have this fantastic over off -- to insure thirty million uninsured and that will not cost the government in time.
Which a nine year old could tell you is utterly impossible Rashid bin is that they don't lower the deficit and what it's gonna of course increase -- I mean it's out of control.
Hi I have a friend who went to school in the graduate school who was a socialist and became could -- -- premier of Ontario.
Single -- He told me years later that it just and he believed in all this it crush the budget.
And he said it was swallowing everything in the budget of -- province and he would have to have a strike every year to.
Of nurses and doctors because the only way to keep down the cost.
-- to get into -- sort of a tussle an argument and the showdown would doctors and nurses and depress the price this thing if it goes to single Payer here we are halfway there.
He's an -- Julian -- swallow the budget.
And we're doing it at a time when we're already seventeen trillion dollars in bad -- it is sort of incomprehensible that you would -- this.
Nancy Todd writes Fred you are reading any comments tonight Nancy you're right here what's our were a little engaged and I apologize -- astonishing.
I've got to get it as propaganda it's all about the community is that this.
Read rosary single -- would be a nightmare no competition.
Says if the current system -- how does that lead to single -- the Republicans are never allow -- I said if it Democrats control.
And the American -- -- revolt after being confident shown by the government.
In trying to run occurrences -- probably -- -- it fair I think he's right it would probably shower the people -- -- bombing.
Now this is -- success as yet -- -- how does this this current time affect one's fourteen.
Quickly down the -- I mean this mess of a website and the questions about other things with the health care law does that transfer.
To 2014 I think absolutely you've gotten here literally millions of people by the end of this getting letters telling them things they don't want -- hear.
Having to spend more money.
The winner is you know will.
I don't think -- and change their lives but the losers will be very motivated and feel very betrayed.
Meanwhile the government shutdown which had a Digg took a big hit out of the Republicans.
Seems like a million years ago already.
While the half life of the Obama -- or even if everything starts going well starting today is still going to be much greater than than anything else -- If you do -- hardball now from -- you save big states Blue States I don't see anybody on the democratic side.
Bailing on this so then I guess you'd say oh but in the red states this could activate the base that the base would be.
Infuriated because Obama well I think liberated and infuriated and as is -- not one Republican voted for obamacare and the congress.
And nonetheless what we saw afterwards is that.
The president and the Democrats in 2012 prevail so I think -- On that basis you have to say it's not gonna have much of an effect what so what we've seen so far now let's say they don't fix -- website.
I don't know.
Effect that could make for a larger scale plan drew a lot of the -- are up for reelection are you heading for the hills on and I don't see any evidence of that fact that there was evidence of that I think that would be -- -- -- -- -- stadium -- -- A statement saying that she's in favor of -- pushing back yet but I don't think not running for -- vehicles that I need.
-- cable rights if you're grandfathered you can keep your insurance but if you move to a new state.
You have to get a new policy which means that you also losing insurance you want to -- They designed as a ready to -- exceedingly difficult.
For anybody to actually have -- the credibility to keep Padilla that was done that -- deliberately.
But I think is gonna have a really shouldn't affect not gonna have the usual affect the way a measure for a lot of -- of class of people.
And ethnic group.
-- immigration or achieve the geographical and this is gonna hit individual people of all classes.
All ethnicities all over the country.
Any kind of random way.
People and in -- losing -- stadium to be denied the race.
They have a huge deductible and so I think it's gonna have to scattershot -- which will degrade the report of the democratic standing.
In in in all elements of society among people chat about it I think it was spread something that will be sort of non discriminatory.
In the sense and it's gonna have an effect everywhere I think he's really dinners and -- 24 teams and I think your existing crisis -- Possibly could.
I don't know that it's inevitable.
But it that this thing really dissolves into a mess.
You know the death spiral where only the -- of signing on the -- the the young and healthy aren't so the previews for everybody's going up.
If that happens then I think this is was sent back to liberalism for a decade.
Well okay possible without well we.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Yeah it does not support from my friend.
That this is that that -- I mean look let's have a real debate about obamacare insurance but it's.
That's why we have the online should look like your -- We have much much -- And much more time and again which I would never do on the honor upon what I can do and by the way I say that these are the things that match.
I'm an Amazon.com.
Also at Barnes & Noble reserve arsenal before I -- -- have.
OK I didn't you know -- -- if you hit.
Hundred anytime pair says -- the graphic ready come to my house -- -- right there you know if anybody sneezes on there we put -- the grad Justin earlier this week and we play all right thank you all another edition of special report on lines you know much fun it is.
Control -- -- you next week.
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