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Now -- by Susan Shapiro and parish rather -- Susan's joining us now it's toxic friends.
Cozy up to your computer screen if you know somebody like that's.
The leader of the pack.
It's a friendship that's all on that person's terms.
They have anybody in your life like that no matter what you do that person is just like.
You know since stale -- -- In your life.
The misery -- that person who wants to feel your pain and I say probably -- -- misery in the process the user.
While you seldom see her coming.
Befriended me and you've heard miss USA and I talking about the thought somebody who.
She's really after something I loved this book and this summer as a woman.
I and I work in a business where women eat their young.
I think I think you -- right now saying -- and -- aware that I am aware of it has like got started at a young age and you know what I think is that it's because it's tolerated alliance that we don't have to treat -- like that.
But it isn't tolerated look at some other reasons and I think now means in some research to always feeling that there's not enough high.
That somehow she gets a great job you're great job.
In a woman thinks he can go after great job herself whether someone gets engaged and what about me if there in reality that can happen because I mean if -- single.
I've read data through 37 and single you have a greater chance of being hit by lightning than you do finding a single guy so the idea that women are soaking up resource that's.
I mean there's a little bit -- to.
But they're more women on earth right it created the show and heart rate of this -- but still marginalized and finally I think that -- -- -- to compete.
And when you're competing with your friends you know personal friends workplace friends and you always feel there's.
There isn't enough trust in and even though you embrace something and you were talking about the enemy before you might -- really respect your friend for some aspect of her life.
And at the same time be -- doesn't.
If so why write the book toxic friends I mean this was supposed to be is that it's felt like a -- of the -- -- had to make a friend and keep a friend it is it's really a way to.
Understand not only is who your friends are but who you are as a friend innocent person and are so critical of their friends.
And it's the same time they're not really interest stepped it.
You say that your mom's voice in your head can rule -- you say that.
In any were kind of quoting a poet Adrienne Rich reminding us of how powerful the role of -- mother is and how mothering can change your society.
Our mothers influence looms large.
They have taught us how to communicate and interact with other women.
In a good at a bad way.
-- that's exactly it that I interviewed 200 women for this book all different he teaches and from disparate backgrounds and what they said without their mothers listen their mothers taught them both what to do and what not to -- As a friend so make your mother was really.
Envious of her friends are very competitive and then you say I don't wanna be like that are maybe she was million -- -- -- you have a different nature.
You know it's it's you're -- I think part of the reason why didn't connect with women early on in a given us a little girl never have really close girlfriends.
Of this because my -- and household of seven kids in the world growth except for one boy.
She she never felt like she had to make friends because she had a houseful of sisters and even now they all of in the Dallas metro and I have twelve girl cousins from the Dallas metro.
Yeah yes I ever -- and look for friends and so I didn't learn that scale until I got to college.
It's still it's just scale and you could tell -- -- to -- a -- friend.
Okay it -- but I colonists study the authentic frank.
-- -- to make that rain is to be.
-- B support and to have time for that friend because so many women think that -- -- time and time again.
With work in children and love relationships and their parents and sisters and many cases.
So to really -- time and energy to that friend.
Okay fine how do you spot some of these how -- -- spot the leader of the pack.
-- the leader we know really early signing me you're a leader when you're in kindergarten.
Everyone -- security now.
And that can -- your whole life I mean this circumstances may change but your contention among your friends and if I would not cross the leader.
Really well women really when you make friends -- don't you have to just hope that -- tomorrow politically.
-- You know we love to be grouped in love to Pilon.
For the leaders -- -- you really creates your social life but you're 36 C a -- and you -- her you can have a problem the for enemy.
That's the top that's that's the darkest.
-- comes -- -- you know rivalry someone who wants to be your friend but time can help them -- and you -- now.
And how do you -- that person when he learned since she undermines U where she does something really she -- about -- -- -- -- betrays you.
There's trophy grand what is the terrific brand trophy friend that someone where she really can help you -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- So it's kind of explain the the user.
The user but it works that the Fed would.
Sometimes the user actually.
If someone who can help you think she car -- for you and you're using her and she knows that the -- you know someone in the work well.
The misery lover.
That's -- right to better tan.
Gosh that's -- for saying out that -- -- you can't you you know I interviewed women who say well and I lost my job but when my fiancee you know.
Broke it -- for the you know he gave me -- when cat died my friend was right there but when I met -- when you are at high near.
I didn't had kind of disappeared some like it better.
How do you.
Of people like that -- this isn't just specific to women now right -- we look for is third -- specific to win because it is it's very.
Much of that into.
Men don't feel whether it means that it and that you're asking.
Me if I'd written a book about -- Alfredsson it would.
And -- Just heard time and I -- it had more to -- I -- many women I.
So hopeful that the -- successful friendships and so disappointment.
You say that this is the anecdote for women stuck in complicated friendships the way you talk about it -- all of our friendships or rather complicated.
But ethical reform -- and that's what women are really looking.
So even though you get tripped up and stuck inside day.
The idea is Q I hear renegotiated friendship that you care about but has gotten into trouble.
I to decide when you can only -- just Nippon which apart from.
Cuba all the stuff I'm a tender protesting.
I teach at Marion college and you and me and this is my eleventh book about women fly so I document the -- -- -- So that's the professorial or or the kind of the forensics have it if that let -- When you read this book feathers there's a personal connection now so -- so I asked the question again how to -- get there.
Was there a particular friend or.
-- I remember managed.
Getting divorced many years to come -- that a lot of friends.
Just dumped me you know that day -- their friends with your -- us.
That's -- dump yeah.
More about that sort of mentality of oh my goodness.
Maybe it's contagious -- now your finger -- cheerleading crowd and they don't have a writer and now you're out and about as a single women and you don't forget things like that that was something I really remembered in this me in writing this book.
And also -- the way you make friends you make friends through children because you meet the other mothers and when I got remarried and meet you and -- -- -- He make things different stages in your life.
But when I interviewed women from the ages of twenty to seventy and -- and what fascinated me.
If count many women happened nearly popped when it comes to practice as much less than happy.
In other areas we're -- They need for her friend.
He inability to discern that from healthy friendship -- even hear similar story at one and with women who are twining and Q do you know widows in Florida and sixty time.
-- so I was really struck by that you know I think.
That's why we feel like -- Thelma and Louise we see these friendship movies among women.
There was a movie out couple years ago it was just last year called the women it was based on my -- -- fifty years ago finished -- Joan Crawford was in the in the original I don't believe and and -- Ryan and -- flash -- it was Diane Keaton Meg Ryan at a -- -- -- a -- -- -- people and I think I -- delicious so that and I think.
-- -- -- -- And it do you remember what happened that you know they they all the -- ocean.
End up turning on each other -- one point or another in the movie.
And it may you know my husband actually -- watched that -- it because it's like -- the conflict from ground zero for -- -- Because I got -- it has -- you know what I see almost every woman I've ever known sister mom people I've dated in this well.
And how they all at different times almost hate each other.
It's a problem and that's and I and so much of it is really culturally.
Intrigued you know comes from the culture the cultural messaging in -- as I said there's this limited good theory for women.
That is -- -- NET then maybe you think why not mean instead of saying why don't I go out and achieve in my area -- in -- -- And to think think your friend always has something to be jealous about me you're not just because she's a single mother -- you're jealous because she's great longing -- -- her children Larry Keating or something.
And so we have to learn to stop doing that and to not think that we're twins but to understand -- individuality.
Do you think there's any part and I -- it.
Kind of fast forward as we go beyond the toxic friends book do you think that there's any part of us that that just makes us somebody who's.
-- hate to think it on lovable either just people out there -- you just can't no matter how hard you try you just can't be friends with them.
Sure you know sure it happens I mean people have different personalities and different styles and sometimes.
A person is and we think it -- still -- -- romantic relationship you meet someone who seems great you know peel away the layers and -- he's.
Not yet another sign of failure that you do that because I'll tell you was a woman I often feel like if I don't -- need another woman and we don't connect to make friends.
If it were -- I was -- you know big deal because of some of why we think.
-- wrong with me that she doesn't want to hang with me 24 and if I call.
And realize we just there to stick it -- -- and I.
Density is so important for women we think we're and together we mean really aren't gone yet but we're not there.
You know sometimes -- to -- -- it together.
You have something to consider and we can't take that personally.
Fascinating book -- it is but not just what I'm reading -- what I've read.
I love love love anything that teaches us how to deal with typical relationships -- -- -- -- end and difficult situations because I don't know any day because spyware you don't come across somebody.
That you wish you had a better either working relationship love relationship friendship with or something.
And you need the tools to be able to do that because -- -- as you say it's it's not always organic.
Well I wrote this -- -- the -- for men and for our daughters to completely I guess I have two daughters Allison and you -- And my three year old has learned something at school recently that I find disturbing but after reading your book I understand it.
She has identified the little girls and her Montessori preschool class as friends are not friends and -- say mommy she's my friend.
I don't really don't know why financial say well because the and why -- -- spot and not my friend.
You see it starts so early flight and can last a lifetime and that's -- I want to have the tools to really understand.
You know who your real friends -- And who is -- whose toxic all right Susan Shapiro bash thank you so much for coming and thank you for sharing your book toxic friends.
Get even for -- I would recommend it to get it for the women in your lives very -- 109 to me this morning -- absolutely come back with your next one.
All right let's take a quick commercial break we'll come back -- -- for breakfast.
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