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America got a great show for -- today we have a studio audience and today hey one of our guests said right approach that on the air.
It's quite an ambitious project working on here.
Yeah it could be.
It may be too ambitious.
All we're gonna do is talk about revolution.
History of revolution not not revolution like the French revolution or even the American revolution.
But the revolutions that have lasting power of the revolution that changes in the world.
You're gonna talk a little bit about this guy.
And that's global revolution.
And the thing I find interesting about it don't don't talk about him tonight as a as as the son of god instead.
Let's talk about him as a man.
The theory is that some people might have missed him if he is indeed the messiah missed him.
Because he wasn't a revolutionary or didn't think it's so then think so the time if you read the words of -- -- -- who was.
Historian back in the day he wrote to Jewish antiquities.
And he talks about Jesus is just being another got -- nailed to a tree as he's another revolutionary.
And they talk about you'll see this talks about all these revolutionaries all these so called messiah is that are up in the hills.
Well we don't really know any of the other names of the revolutionaries that that live did his time.
What is it that he did that change the world global revolution.
There's a lot of people.
Lot of people that helped Mahatma Gandhi.
But how come we know him.
And what does he have in common but this guy.
And then there's this one.
Here in America civil rights revolution that's what it was Dr.
Martin Luther King others Malcolm -- but Malcolm X isn't Dr.
Martin Luther King.
What's the difference.
And what does this guy this guy and this guy have in common because these things.
May be necessary for us.
Now as we go into the future.
Where we headed and where the answers.
I have to tell you that.
About a year ago.
I was trying to figure out a twenty it is trying to figure out what was going on.
And what I was supposed to do was -- talk about and and word people last mile time so where we go from here.
Where is the guy where's the president where that and the more I went down the road trying to figure things out the more I realize that answer isn't.
In Washington it's not in politics it's in here we have to fundamentally change ourselves.
So as I'm looking to the future of the thing I did a year ago.
Was I went back to the beginning I went.
To this guy.
The first real revolutionary.
And the ten commandments.
So we're gonna have a discussion with people who know about -- these cuts.
-- this doctor -- -- king she's the director of African American outreach for priests for life.
She is the niece of Dr.
Martin Luther King Jr.
she is the author of who we are in crisis eases.
She also the stood with me an 828.
From the steps of the Lincoln Memorial a brave brave woman and -- dear friend also someone else who is there with me.
Rabbi Daniel Lapin.
He is the founder of American alliance for Jews -- Christians.
And an amazing man and someone I'm meeting for the first time doctor Robert Franklin he is the president of the distinguished morehouse college for Martin Luther King graduated.
First introduced to the nonviolent movement and joining us also from Illinois.
-- -- Is -- Mo -- -- he is one of eight surviving grandchildren of Mahatma Gandhi is a former member of India's upper house in parliament.
And he is also research professor at the University of Illinois Urbana Champaign.
He is the president of initiatives of change international and he's the author of the monumental biography Gandhi.
In fact in the middle of it some place there is a picture.
Here it is.
On the lap of Mahatma Gandhi.
The biography Gandhi the man his people and the empire.
It is an honor to have all of you with me today and I what I wanna do is -- -- start at the beginning so rabbi I'm gonna start with you and what I want is.
What was the thing that will -- then your revolutionary because you're gonna -- your your revolutionary is Moses.
So we're gonna go Moses Jesus.
Ghandi and then Martin Luther King.
What was that they were trying to conquer and what was their main.
Tool that they use.
Well I think in the case of Moses and and and I think -- in you instead of calling him my man I think you have to call me his -- And his sister is but.
The that the main.
Tool festival at -- at the main tool.
Is that for a revolution to be successful.
It requires a higher purpose it isn't enough to say hey get us out of this predicament -- we've got to get out here this is really uncomfortable.
It's got -- -- it's it's not that it's not do something.
We gotta do something about it it exactly it's -- that and so contrary to popular belief Moses never ever said.
That my people go what he really said every single time was let my people go so that they -- me.
In the desert.
So there was always a significant consequence in the value of that is that.
And every revolution exists on a public -- wells on a personal level.
And so the book of exodus is not just a history of a 3000 your old movement that we shaped everything including -- western civilization.
But it is also a blueprint of personal redemption so each and every one of us has -- Egypt I don't know what it is for some people it's alcohol it's an addiction.
It's a marriage that used to be salvaged somebody wants to get everybody has an agent who goes by definition.
In the Hebrew language each of means something that -- -- is confines restricts and prevents me from reaching my fullest potential.
-- Doctor what is what was to tell me about.
Well I would say that Jesus was a revolutionary.
Of -- And the two challenges for their many city address but the two that I that I -- here now number one -- religion.
Of external behavior -- -- acts piety.
He really call for religion of -- heart he won a people's dispositions toward others to change and to make neighbors endless in our Ron -- Windows button and rabbi you -- my note to the -- sees this story -- -- -- that that's just from memory from years ago but he was not understood at the time because they were looking for a messiah up -- core.
Right ends and so he rule was so.
Misunderstood their like -- hear and nobody.
He was not seeking to establish a new form of government on earth.
But he did talk a lot about the kingdom of god the reign of god in the world which had to do with.
Compassion toward poor and those were outcasts and -- greater compassion and mercy and love towards them.
OK so higher purpose.
Or purposes and love now and we go to two.
Rush -- what what was the -- what was that thing that Mahatma Gandhi was trying to conquer and and what was his main tool.
He was -- and he also a passionate -- fall in love.
He was equally -- passionate fighter for justice.
He was -- high -- of freedom.
Not only the people of India to be liberated he wanted all the oppressed peoples of the world to be liberated.
He of course was committed to nonviolence.
But to him nonviolence was not was loudly because forgiveness but it was also struggled.
And their fight for justice.
I it was also an identification.
-- being recast in the poorest person in the out gusts of India.
He also what -- -- did believe that that all of us are the same.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Already at the bottom absolutely the same.
And so here's what that evolution also all French -- off the unity of building bridges.
-- I could send more.
That's so I let it come that was on the back but I mean a priority starting to see the the patterns.
And doctor -- king.
Martin Luther King revolution civil rights.
My conduct my -- the king junior.
With a follower of Jesus Christ he implemented the principles.
Of Gandhi and then he went to Moses is left -- top.
And so he really embraced all of those tenants and certainly his greatest example was Jesus Christ.
And then then unbalanced then Gundy practice just compelled to my uncle he he looked at violence he looked at everything else that was going on.
If they've been nonviolence it's going to beat them method home.
He helped -- rabbi on Moses because I know Ghandi Martin Luther King Jesus committed to nonviolence yes but.
Those ten commandments were pretty violent let's face that at rock one point for another bit but that was Little -- But you Lizzy Lizzy.
-- -- because he was an uphill -- I'm -- -- you know that I play yeah Iraq he didn't do anything right yeah right yet.
I -- earlier on he did killing Egypt -- -- But that's what I think attacking his one of these brethren but that's kind of bloody.
That's who he got out of that wouldn't desert yet that's of the desert was all about.
But I but here's one thing that immediately south as a as a common denominator -- and and that is that when the revolution is Sam is -- -- -- the revolution is is motivated by a deep threat and higher purpose.
The personality is trumped by the cools.
And so whether it's Dr.
Martin Luther King or -- -- -- Moses specifically.
There is a willingness to not be the center of the scene.
Moses was -- was willing to die and he knew somebody else would take the children of Israel out of Egypt.
Where is -- revolutions on the left secular rise revolutions tend to be very personality driven rather -- idea dramatic.
Well let me privately -- do one more thing before we would we move on and that is I know Jesus.
Built off of Moses -- he'd he didn't come to destroy a he came -- to add on fulfill the law yet the film.
I know that Dr.
Martin Luther King looked to Jesus and also look to -- but also looked Moses so we have.
That we have Dr.
Martin Luther King Jesus and Moses.
There -- all coming back really to Moses did that Mahatma Gandhi.
Did he look back to Moses as well that he's did was there any.
We may not get there to get into the promised land.
And no he certainly was inspired by Moses and very much so by Jesus who is -- -- moved instead by.
And by the someone on the mountain.
By the called.
To poverty to simplicity.
To -- quantity.
To -- -- so Gandhi was profoundly stead by the Moses and by Jesus.
But of course christianity came to him to India.
-- empire with colonialism -- oppression.
So that was something that Gandhi was aware all.
But there's absolutely no question that Gandhi was deeply -- Jesus so the only one here as I'm looking for patterns the only one here that didn't.
That didn't see the success.
There's there's two differences that I -- Moses is the only one that wasn't killed.
For what he did right.
When he was punished by not being allowed into the promised land he was never able to really fulfill his mission and so yes.
And that's about it Steelers interviewed crucifixion are being shot or get out by an old man yeah he is today idol then the other ones I don't OK so there's one difference.
The other difference is.
Moses actually accomplished the task of stopping of the oppression.
Martin Luther King did Gandhi did.
But Jesus didn't see it in his lifetime he didn't.
He didn't stop -- right.
That's right he builds a movement he builds what he understood would become a world transforming movement.
But he doesn't live to see that right on earth.
Right so the church -- -- to carry that forward okay so are there any other important differences or similarities before we move into the -- one of them is that I think.
It certainly doctor Martin Luther and Luther king -- -- and and Moses.
We're not looking.
-- great that's they would not seeking to -- a political movement.
Put it in fact Moses was a -- but in the days and all he did was -- looked and noticed that a bush didn't get consumed and from that noticing.
He received -- calling.
As opposed to to -- having.
Exposing naked ambition which is a feature very often found with some of revolutions and Jesus didn't I mean Jesus was -- please take this -- me.
I don't wanna do that and I've been here I -- add that Gandhi also.
Although he wasn't -- better of the Indian independence movement -- It's worth noting that he did not take any position nothing -- became independent he was on the prime minister he was not the president.
He was all this keen to do and let others take the lead.
And to make the other person great it was a great passion -- And -- -- identified themselves -- the the least and their weakest in India and did not take any position of any kind nothing get became independent so -- -- -- Is will.
What do you what do you remember what do you personally remember do you have -- -- real memories of being with them.
Sure are I was that -- and Hoffman who is here that was going to school in your daily which is where he spent the last several months of his knife.
And of course and I was made him that was a time in India was becoming independent but also India was witnessing -- tremendous clashes between Hindus and Muslims was when -- was addictive violence was he an ultimatum by elevated I have talked about this for -- Martin Luther King he knew.
-- -- -- anything -- indefinitely and he was he was not afraid but he was afraid.
Was was -- afraid.
This Jesus was it what he says he's actually knew.
He -- and you knew that he was it going to be -- expected to be killed.
And he often attack said that he Yost people who met him please pray for me David I would have the coverage -- the moment comes.
And being that I will also have the cutters to forgive those -- -- me.
I'm also here's an even Jesus the American prayers that they're -- family you know take this cup probably I do not want to -- -- -- no human does and and yet there's an acceptance.
Not not my will but by will be done.
And I'm gonna take a break but payment Moses Moses was saying the same thing will mind what.
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